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Old 07-06-2015, 08:20   #1
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AGM Fire fly Battery

Has any one put this batery in their boat yet?
How do thier perform?


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Old 12-06-2015, 06:05   #2
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Re: AGM Fire fly Battery

We have sold them to many marine applications and this number is growing fast. It is hard to get much feedback from most users other than "they work great", or "I was able to run much longer before charging", neither of which gives any real data!

Fortunately we also have a nice bank on Nigel Calder's cruising boat, who many of you will know as something of a marine electrical guru (has many books out on such). He is a data fanatic and has put them to the test. For real punishment left them stored from last August to this May at a SOC of only 38% (!). This would ruin any other Pb battery that I know of. Here is some of his analysis of recharging and testing them upon return to the boat:

After discharging the 24v series/parallel Firefly pack to 38% SoC last August I left the batteries disconnected all winter. When I got here I did a normal recharge with the 4 batteries in 24v series/parallel mode. I held the absorption voltage overnight (i.e. no specialized voltage/current; just an extended timer on the absorption for a mild overcharge without equalization voltages), ran the batteries in boat use for several hours with a float charge, then did a C20 capacity test. My previous tests were done at the C10 rate, so not apples for apples. At the end of last summer I got 105 Ah per block, which is about right at the C10 rate for the 110 Ah C20 rating of these batteries. This time I got right at 110 Ah per block at the C20 rate, so this looks really good. I recharged with a voltage limit of 28.8v (14.4v/block) and a current limit of 0.25C. The voltage regulator kicked in at 64% SoC and then the CAR tapered off about in the middle of the pack of walk-down curves from last summer.

His only disappointment is the CAR (Charge Acceptance Rate) when doing the restoration charging. For most folks this won't matter much unless they have a powerful charging system relative to the size of the bank. Down the road Firefly plans a thin-plate version for higher CAR and high-current applications like electric propulsion, etc. In the meantime the current deep-cycle Firefly Oasis (what Nigel has) are great for house banks, allowing extended PSOC (Partial SOC) use without damaging the capacity and cycle life.

If you have an electric boat with current loads over .7C then wait for the thin plate version.
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Old 12-06-2015, 06:30   #3
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Re: AGM Fire fly Battery

Are there plans to build Firefly batteries in a 6V GC size?

Thanks,

Dave
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Old 12-06-2015, 06:34   #4
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Re: AGM Fire fly Battery

I am using the battery I beat up for the Practical Sailor testing on our boat as my reserve battery. For this season she will purposely be charged at the same voltage as our LiFePO4 bank, 13.9V, to see how it does with this over the season. I will retest capacity in early December of 2015. This was the only AGM I tested that survived the PSOC cycling with 100% of its baseline Ah capacity. Pretty impressive stuff.

I think Nigel's real world experience trumps what I have done, in a more lab like setting though. Leaving a battery bank at 38% SOC for NINE MONTHS is usually a death sentence, yet Nigel's Firefly bank recovered 100% of its capacity after none months at 38% SOC......

I am also installing them on customers vessels..
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Old 12-06-2015, 06:45   #5
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Re: AGM Fire fly Battery

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Lochner View Post
Are there plans to build Firefly batteries in a 6V GC size?

Thanks,

Dave
Not at the moment...the thin-plate G31 is next up, then probably an L16 size in 4V.
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Old 12-06-2015, 09:03   #6
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Re: AGM Fire fly Battery

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Lochner View Post
Are there plans to build Firefly batteries in a 6V GC size?
Thanks,
Dave
Quote:
Originally Posted by OceanPlanet View Post
Not at the moment...the thin-plate G31 is next up, then probably an L16 size in 4V.

If it might influence further development...

I can tell you we have a bank of 3x G31 AGMs (300 Ah), that I intend to eventually replace with 4x GC2s (440 Ah). My focus is about acquiring more amp-hours. The 4x 6Vs will fit in that space, whereas 4x G31s won't... and extra height GC4s or L16s won't fit either.

I'd suspect a deeper cycle 6V Firefly GC with PSOC advantages -- assuming those continue to pan out in tests -- would be very well received throughout the boating community.

-Chris
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Old 12-06-2015, 09:06   #7
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Re: AGM Fire fly Battery

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Originally Posted by ranger42c View Post
If it might influence further development...

I can tell you we have a bank of 3x G31 AGMs (300 Ah), that I intend to eventually replace with 4x GC2s (440 Ah). My focus is about acquiring more amp-hours. The 4x 6Vs will fit in that space, whereas 4x G31s won't... and extra height GC4s or L16s won't fit either.

I'd suspect a deeper cycle 6V Firefly GC with PSOC advantages -- assuming those continue to pan out in tests -- would be very well received throughout the boating community.

-Chris
Yes, we know the 6V GC size would be great...will pass on the word, however it will take time. Of course the more notes like your we get the more leverage we have...so thanks!

Bruce
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Old 12-06-2015, 16:08   #8
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Re: AGM Fire fly Battery

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Originally Posted by OceanPlanet View Post
Yes, we know the 6V GC size would be great...will pass on the word, however it will take time. Of course the more notes like your we get the more leverage we have...so thanks!

Bruce
g'Day Bruce,

Considering the number of golf carts running T-105s or equivilents, I'd think that format would be of considerable interest to the mfg. And of course, all of us yotties that use them would benefit... I'd sure be interested!

Further, are they being marketed in Oz at this time?

Cheers,

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Old 12-06-2015, 18:13   #9
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Re: AGM Fire fly Battery

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Originally Posted by Jim Cate View Post
g'Day Bruce,

Considering the number of golf carts running T-105s or equivilents, I'd think that format would be of considerable interest to the mfg. And of course, all of us yotties that use them would benefit... I'd sure be interested!

Further, are they being marketed in Oz at this time?

Cheers,

Jim
Hi Jim,

Love those western red cedar SP hulls...& spent much of my life on various cold molded boats...

OPE is distributing FF in North America, perhaps we can help get them rolling in OZ too...I don't think there is a marine distributor there yet. Although I do know that they have shipped a big order recently to OZ for non-marine. Will try to find out more.

B
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Old 14-06-2015, 22:44   #10
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Re: AGM Fire fly Battery

12 Volt G31 should fit whete two 6 volt Trojans 105 same capacity? right B

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Old 15-06-2015, 05:57   #11
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Re: AGM Fire fly Battery

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Originally Posted by COLINFLTENG View Post
12 Volt G31 should fit whete two 6 volt Trojans 105 same capacity? right B

Pretty sure a single 12V G31 will fit in the same space as two 6V T105s.

Two T105s at 12V should give you approx 220 Ah. A single 12V G31 usually gives you around 100-105 Ah.

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Old 15-06-2015, 08:16   #12
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Re: AGM Fire fly Battery

So equal in capacity

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Old 15-06-2015, 08:19   #13
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Re: AGM Fire fly Battery

AGM battery use up to 80 percent vis wet battery 50 percent

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Old 15-06-2015, 08:41   #14
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Re: AGM Fire fly Battery

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Originally Posted by COLINFLTENG View Post
12 Volt G31 should fit whete two 6 volt Trojans 105 same capacity? right B

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I have been down this road, T105's are quite a bit higher than Group 31's
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Old 15-06-2015, 08:59   #15
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Re: AGM Fire fly Battery

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Originally Posted by COLINFLTENG View Post
AGM battery use up to 80 percent vis wet battery 50 percent

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A 220 amp/hour battery at 50% soc gives you about 110 amp hours of usable power.

A 105 amp hour battery at 80% soc gives you about 82 amp hours of usable power.

That's about a third more usable power in the GC or T-105 batteries.
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