AGM Battery Equalization

[sailorboy1]

I don't have AGMs so am just asking, so don't go crazy.

I've read many times here that only Lifeline AGM batteries can be equalized charged.

1 - Does their literature acturally say this? I assume it does, but does it?
2 - Do other AGM manufacturers acturally say that their batteries can NOT be equalized? Or is it that they just don't say they can?
3 - What's the physical difference in construction between the various AGM batteries of same size?

Please provide links and not just hearsay.

[Alan Mighty]

Originally Posted by sailorboy1

I've read many times here that only Lifeline AGM batteries can be equalized charged.

1 - Does their literature acturally say this? I assume it does, but does it?

Please provide links and not just hearsay.

Very sad to learn that you do not know how to use a search engine.

Here's my helping hand: https://lifelinebatteries.com/2015/1...agm-batteries/

[Wotname]

Originally Posted by sailorboy1

I don't have AGMs so am just asking, so don't go crazy.

I've read many times here that only Lifeline AGM batteries can be equalized charged.

1 - Does their literature acturally say this? I assume it does, but does it?
2 - Do other AGM manufacturers acturally say that their batteries can NOT be equalized? Or is it that they just don't say they can?
3 - What's the physical difference in construction between the various AGM batteries of same size?

Please provide links and not just hearsay.

1. Lifeline / Concorde literature describes the equalisation process for their product line. They call it conditioning. Search for the links, I used to have their hard copies only. Of course they don't mention other manufactures i.e. they don't say only Lifeline can be equalised / conditioned.

2. I haven't seen any other manufactures describe the process but that doesn't mean some do.

3. Weight.

FWIW, I have equalised quite a few Chinese AGM batteries in the past when their capacity dropped below ~75%. Sometimes it helped a bit, sometimes it helped a lot and sometimes it didn't help at all. Very occasionally it ruined the battery and very very occasionally it improved the capacity to greater than the originated nominal capacity. Always kept a sharp eye to see if the case was bulging or getting hot.



I believed but never proved it reduced the number of cycles left in the battery.

[a64pilot]

I believe the Concorde battery is different in many ways from an average battery.
Concorde is the parent company, Lifeline is a subsidiary I believe.
I’ve attended a few IA renewal seminars where Concorde gave classes on their aircraft batteries, during a break I asked what the difference was between Concorde and Lifeline as I know for instance that the specific gravity of the acid used in a regular aircraft battery is higher than in normal flooded batteries, the acid is stronger in an aircraft battery,
Anyway I was told the difference in between the two was primarily the label.
The Lifeline is essentially an aircraft grade / quality battery.
So the Concorde batteries case is stronger, the interconnect buss bars between the cells are different than regular batteries, and the separating walls between the cells is different, and I was led to believe there is more acid in the Concorde, and the ability to recombine hydrogen and oxygen was better in a Concorde, and this is what leads me to believe they will tolerate equalization better than the average AGM, they are more resistant to drying out. The terminals are also different, they are a copper alloy and not lead as of course copper is a better conductor.
I was also led to understand that the pressure at which the valve opens and allows the battery for off gas was higher in a Concorde which the stronger case enables, and this can lead to a bulging or dented in case appearance and is normal.
Give them a call on the phone, they will talk to you
This is two pics of the seminar.

Also if it matters to you, I believe they are completely manufactured in the US, it’s an American made product.
Unless things have changed recently

[Wotname]

^^ Concordes perform well at 30,000+'.
Which is one of the reasons the case is stronger and the valves are different.

[a64pilot]

Originally Posted by Wotname

^^ Concordes perform well at 30,000+'.
Which is one of the reasons the case is stronger and the valves are different.

Gill’s do to, and they have weak cases and only rollover valves in their caps.

The point is though unless I was told an untruth, the Lifeline gets the same pieces parts as does the Concorde.
They are different colors though, for whatever reason.

[sailorboy1]

So a link sent me to a story of Lifeline probably some type of custom equalization procedure and the batteries now last 5+ years. Is that the best it gets?

I’m just asking the questions. Trolls are wasted attacking me with silly comments. I don't have agms so am only interested and not going to search data. I would figure agm owners researched and can provide unless they just were accepting comments.

[a64pilot]

Originally Posted by Wotname

^^ Concordes perform well at 30,000+'.
Which is one of the reasons the case is stronger and the valves are different.

Gill’s do to, and they have weak cases and only rollover valves I’m their caps.

The point is though unless I was told an untruth, the Lifeline gets the same pieces parts as does the Concorde.
They are different colors though, for whatever reason.

[a64pilot]

Originally Posted by sailorboy1

So a link sent me to a story of Lifeline probably some type of custom equalization procedure and the batteries now last 5+ years. Is that the best it gets?

I’m just asking the questions. Trolls are wasted attacking me with silly comments. I don't have agms so am only interested and not going to search data. I would figure agm owners researched and can provide unless they just were accepting comments.

I think that is about all they will sign up for yes, I got my bank as sort of a favor as I had been trying to get the Concorde battery in the aircraft we were manufacturing, but Gill essentially gives their cheap battery away to OEM manufacturers knowing they will sell many batteries based off of them bing OEM fitment.
The owner of the plant would not spend the extra money on Concorde’s.

But long story short I had a decent conversation with one of their Engineers ref the Lifeline bank and one of the Godfrey’s. Concorde is a family owned company, and owned by the Godfrey family.
Anyway I told them my expected use was twice weekly to get to an honest full charge when I ran the generator to make water, and the rest of the week as close as Solar would get me. I was told they would last 5 years and to equalize monthly.

I believe though that smart manufacturers know that by significantly outperforming expectations is how you get a good reputation. The 30 GPH Cruise RO watermaker almost always makes around 35 GPH, but Rich knows better than to market it as a 35 GPH watermaker, cause in cold water it won’t quite make 35 GPH, but if he markets it as a 30, and it makes more, no one complains, in fact they are usually more than pleased. And his watermaker gets a great rep cause it outperforms expectations.

So I think Lifeline says 5 years, knowing if they are well treated they last longer and no one is going to complain if their batteries last longer than they were told to expect.

Then I also believe that the common cruiser is running around with banks that are in fact dead by definition, that is they have lost enough capacity to be classified as dead, but people learn to get by with reduced capacity or the bank was sized so that the drop is acceptable.

If I had a 1000 AH bank and had lost 50% capacity, I’d think I was still fine as the reaming 500 is plenty for me. But at 50% they are way, way past dead.

[a64pilot]

Oh, and in my opinion a Lifeline bank is not a good bank for a cruiser and they are certainly not a Best Buy.
I think they are a great battery, but for their cost all I see that you really get from them as opposed to a Sams Club GC battery is you don’t have to water them, and that’s a lot of money spent to not have to water a battery.

[sailorboy1]

Are you saying that Lifeline does not really say their agm batteries can be equalized in a standardized way? Just this no details statement that told someone how to do it and they got “5+“ years life?

I am not looking to trash anything. But now I'm directly asking the answer to post 1, item 1. Is there a published equalization procedure from Lifeline for their agms?

[a64pilot]

Originally Posted by sailorboy1

So a link sent me to a story of Lifeline probably some type of custom equalization procedure and the batteries now last 5+ years. Is that the best it gets?

I’m just asking the questions. Trolls are wasted attacking me with silly comments. I don't have agms so am only interested and not going to search data. I would figure agm owners researched and can provide unless they just were accepting comments.

I think that is about all they will sign up for yes, I got my bank as sort of a favor as I had been trying to get the Concorde battery in the aircraft we were manufacturing, but Gill essentially gives their cheap battery away to OEM manufacturers knowing they will sell many batteries based off of them bing OEM fitment.
The owner of the plant would not spend the extra money on Concorde’s.

But long story short I had a decent conversation with one of their Engineers ref the Lifeline bank and one of the Godfrey’s. Concorde is a family owned company, and owned by the Godfrey family.
Anyway I told them my expected use was twice weekly to get to an honest full charge when I ran the generator to make water, and the rest of the week as close as Solar would get me. I was told they would last 5 years and to equalize monthly.

I believe though that smart manufacturers know that by significantly outperforming expectations is how you get a good reputation. The 30 GPH Cruise RO watermaker almost always makes around 35 GPH, but Rich knows better than to market it as a 35 GPH watermaker, cause in cold water it won’t quite make 35 GPH, but if he markets it as a 30, and it makes more, no one complains, in fact they are usually more than pleased.

So I think Lifeline says 5 years, knowing if they are well treated they last longer and no one is going to complain if their batteries last longer than they were told to expect.

Then I also believe that the common cruiser is running around with banks that are in fact dead by definition, that is they have lost enough capacity to be classified as dead, but people learn to get by with reduced capacity or the bank was sized so that the drop is acceptable.

If I had a 1000 AH bank and had lost 50% capacity, I’d think I was still fine as the reaming 500 is plenty for me. But at 50% they are way, way past dead.

[Alan Mighty]

Originally Posted by sailorboy1

Is there a published equalization procedure from Lifeline for their agms?

Take a look at the attached pdf: 5.5 Conditioning, page 21 from the 2017 edition of Technical Manual for Lifeline Batteries: Lifeline - Conditioning.pdf.

A more recent version of the Technical Manual is likely available for free download from the Lifeline website.

[sailorboy1]

Reminder, your aren't trying to convince me. Im just the question asker and am only asking for “proof” references to long posted stuff.

So it looks Lifeline does have an equalization procedure.

Now on to the other question parts of post 1.

[Wotname]

Originally Posted by sailorboy1

.......

I’m just asking the questions. Trolls are wasted attacking me with silly comments. I don't have agms so am only interested and not going to search data. I would figure agm owners researched and can provide unless they just were accepting comments.

I'm happy to give you my hard won hands on experience as "answers" to your questions but I ain't interested in doing the searching of data for you.

Sometimes you gotta stand on your own two feet and get your fingers onto the keyboard. There are a couple of good search engines on the internet these days and you are smart enough to use them. You are also smart enough to ask the right questions.


If this is a silly comment and if I'm a troll, so be it.