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Old 01-09-2011, 07:45   #31
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Re: A Proper Crimp - One You Can Believe In

For a "non-proper" field crimp where you don't have or cannot afford a real crimping tool - you can use a hammer crimper shown below. It is a couple of dies with different size cutouts. (my old one had 4 different size cutouts). You put the wire and terminal in the cutout that is a little smaller and then smash the thing with a good sledge hammer. It ain't pretty but it gets the job done.
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Old 01-09-2011, 12:19   #32
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Re: A Proper Crimp - One You Can Believe In

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Originally Posted by osirissail View Post
For a "non-proper" field crimp where you don't have or cannot afford a real crimping tool - you can use a hammer crimper shown below. It is a couple of dies with different size cutouts. (my old one had 4 different size cutouts). You put the wire and terminal in the cutout that is a little smaller and then smash the thing with a good sledge hammer. It ain't pretty but it gets the job done.
I can see that for the shorter sort of battery cable. Get an Anchor crimper or something of quality for everything up to 10 ga. or something and a set of dies for the hammer crimper otherwise.

Yes, I have a collection of sledges and fancy myself as Thor.

I just had an idea, however. Many people, including me, carry a whopping set of bolt cutters. It strikes me that the principle is the same, and replacing the "blades" of the bolt cutters with dies shouldn't be a difficult task...unless the "spread" is an issue.

Anyone heard of this? All the leverage and compression one might want should be obtainable from the lever arms of the typical 24 or 30 inch bolt cutter tool.

Has anyone, while I'm on the topic, ever used a hydraulic jack to crimp using dies? I have two of them aboard as well.
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Old 01-09-2011, 13:10   #33
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Re: A Proper Crimp - One You Can Believe In

Hmmm....let's see. I don't need a set of box wrenches or socket wrenches because I carry a large pliers with adjustable notches which will fit any nut on the boat.

It simply amazes me the lengths some will go to, and the considerable ingenuity they will employ, in order to avoid carrying and using the right tool for the job :-)

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Old 01-09-2011, 15:22   #34
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Re: A Proper Crimp - One You Can Believe In

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Originally Posted by S/V Alchemy View Post
. . . I just had an idea, however. Many people, including me, carry a whopping set of bolt cutters. It strikes me that the principle is the same, and replacing the "blades" of the bolt cutters with dies shouldn't be a difficult task...unless the "spread" is an issue.
Anyone heard of this? All the leverage and compression one might want should be obtainable from the lever arms of the typical 24 or 30 inch bolt cutter tool. . . .
I have one of these and it works real well on cables larger than 4ga and battery size cables.
Klein Tools KLE2006 Large Compound-Action Crimp Tool
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Old 01-09-2011, 21:17   #35
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Re: A Proper Crimp - One You Can Believe In

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Hmmm....let's see. I don't need a set of box wrenches or socket wrenches because I carry a large pliers with adjustable notches which will fit any nut on the boat.

It simply amazes me the lengths some will go to, and the considerable ingenuity they will employ, in order to avoid carrying and using the right tool for the job :-)

Bill
Bill, I'm in "idle speculation mode" here. I'm not trying to cheap out, but rather am attempting to reason whether I need to carry 800 pounds of tools or 1000 pounds of tools. "Double-duty" is part of that calculation, just as is the "belt and suspenders" approach of having pressure water AND foot pumps for different situations, or (as I have) a windlass both electrically and manually operated.

The design of bolt cutters struck me as being adaptable to the larger sort of crimper. If it hasn't been done, perhaps it should be. If it's infeasible, I'd like to learn why not.
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Old 02-09-2011, 00:25   #36
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Re: A Proper Crimp - One You Can Believe In

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I also bought that same crimper this past winter. Also buy all my lugs and wire from Genuinedealz. I buy the HD lugs when a choice. When I crimped smaller wire such as 8AWG, the crimp looked really nice. However, when I crimped my larger cables, 2AWG and larger, the crimper always would leave a sharp flashing at the pinch point were the dies meet when closed. I would always have to rotate the lug in teh tool and lightly close the crimper to bend the flashing over to rid the sharp edge. Didn't close tight to where it would recrimp the lug. Otherwise, all the crimps where solid.
Buy a good pair of cable cutters! Menards has both Greenlee and Klien cutters in the electrical dept. $20.
Yes, I've noticed that too. Wondering if it was just because the lugs I was using were cheap.

I see that Greenlee lists UL certified lugs right on the tool. Only problem is finding anywhere that stocks them not in quantities of 100/carton.
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Old 02-09-2011, 06:11   #37
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Re: A Proper Crimp - One You Can Believe In

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Originally Posted by S/V Alchemy View Post
Bill, I'm in "idle speculation mode" here. I'm not trying to cheap out, but rather am attempting to reason whether I need to carry 800 pounds of tools or 1000 pounds of tools. "Double-duty" is part of that calculation, just as is the "belt and suspenders" approach of having pressure water AND foot pumps for different situations, or (as I have) a windlass both electrically and manually operated.

The design of bolt cutters struck me as being adaptable to the larger sort of crimper. If it hasn't been done, perhaps it should be. If it's infeasible, I'd like to learn why not.
Not trying to bust your chops, Alchemy. Just an observation.

By the way, the large Greenlee crimper (AWG8 to AWG 4/0) weighs 6.5 lbs. The small one (AWG8 to AWG1/0) weighs 3.0 lbs. Even if you carried both, I doubt the 10lbs would break your tool-weight budget!

And cost? You'd very likely spend a great deal more trying to adapt a bolt cutter to do the same thing, i.e., adapting dies for various size battery cables and assuring they are exactly the right size and that the angles are correct.

JMO :-)

Bill

PS... re: dual usage, in a pinch, I've found that the Greenlee crimpers can be used with Nicopress sleeves, and vice versa, i.e., the Nicopress screw tools can be used with battery lugs. But, you've gotta choose the sizes very carefully! For serious work, though, I much prefer to use the correct tool!

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Old 02-09-2011, 09:50   #38
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Re: A Proper Crimp - One You Can Believe In

I bought the 8-1/0. I do see where the jaws of the crimp die wheels don't line up perfectly and cause a slight pinch when using thinner lugs.

I wonder if my 4AWG cable was too small or if I just need better lugs? The ones I tried just slid off the wire after crimping. Unfortunately in the car audio world, one manufacturer's 4AWG is not necessarily the same as another's. I have ordered some "thicker" 4AWG cable, but I might need lugs with thicker walls in the sleeve, too.

I'm probably way over-thinking this. Most people get by just fine with the standard car audio terminal blocks and connections, but the set-screws in them mash down half the strands in the cable and leave the rest just frayed all over the place.
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Old 02-09-2011, 10:51   #39
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Re: A Proper Crimp - One You Can Believe In

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Originally Posted by btrayfors View Post

PS... re: dual usage, in a pinch, I've found that the Greenlee crimpers can be used with Nicopress sleeves, and vice versa, i.e., the Nicopress screw tools can be used with battery lugs. But, you've gotta choose the sizes very carefully! For serious work, though, I much prefer to use the correct tool!

B
Roger on the weight thing. Frankly, with a full keel steel boat, I'm largely immune, but it doesn't mean I don't prefer to carry multi-purpose tools.

The Nicopress tool idea is attractive as I intend to carry spare rigging (at least one forestay, one backstay and one upper) and terminals. I currently have Norseman swage fittings...like new, still, but that's likely in part because the boat has never seen salt water.
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Old 02-09-2011, 12:16   #40
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Re: A Proper Crimp - One You Can Believe In

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... Unfortunately, in the car audio world, one manufacturer's 4AWG is not necessarily the same as another's. I have ordered some "thicker" 4AWG cable, but I might need lugs with thicker walls in the sleeve, too ...
American Wire gauge, (AWG) is not the same as Society of Automotive Engineeers (SAE) Wire Gauges, AWG being about 6 to 10% larger than SAE gauge.
#4 AWG has a cross section area of about 42,000 Circular Mills
#4 SAE has a cross section area of about 37,360 CM
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Old 02-09-2011, 12:20   #41
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Re: A Proper Crimp - One You Can Believe In

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American Wire gauge, (AWG) is not the same as Society of Automotive Engineeers (SAE) Wire Gauges, AWG being about 6 to 10% larger than SAE gauge.
#4 AWG has a cross section area of about 42,000 Circular Mills
#4 SAE has a cross section area of about 37,360 CM
Thanks, that's good to know.

Thing is, there are still cable size variations between 4AWG cable from different manufacturers, at least int he car audio aftermarket business. Chalk it up to sloppy manufacturing, etc...

Case in point - my crimp tool is in AWG, my cable is 4AWG and yet the 4AWG lugs slide right off after crimping.
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Old 02-09-2011, 12:28   #42
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Re: A Proper Crimp - One You Can Believe In

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Thanks, that's good to know.

Thing is, there are still cable size variations between 4AWG cable from different manufacturers, at least int he car audio aftermarket business. Chalk it up to sloppy manufacturing, etc...

Case in point - my crimp tool is in AWG, my cable is 4AWG and yet the 4AWG lugs slide right off after crimping.
Use AWG6 crimp setting. See how that works. The lugs should be very, very tight, i.e., you should be able to suspend a heavy weight from them without their coming off.

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Old 02-09-2011, 17:04   #43
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Re: A Proper Crimp - One You Can Believe In

Please forgive my questions, I'm new to this

Is it safe to assume that anything automotive would be SAE (Society of automobile engineers)?

Also, is it safe to assume that anything marked "GA" or "Gauge" would be SAE, and anything marked AWG is American Wire Gauge?


Sheesh. I suppose the nice thing about standards is that there are so many to choose from
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Old 02-09-2011, 17:19   #44
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Re: A Proper Crimp - One You Can Believe In

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... 1. Is it safe to assume that anything automotive would be SAE (Society of automobile engineers)?

2. Also, is it safe to assume that anything marked "GA" or "Gauge" would be SAE, and anything marked AWG is American Wire Gauge? ...
Yes.
No.
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Old 02-09-2011, 17:36   #45
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Re: A Proper Crimp - One You Can Believe In

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The lugs should be very, very tight, i.e., you should be able to suspend a heavy weight from them without their coming off.
The tensile strength required of a crimped termination is quantified in ABYC E-11:

Termination Tensile Test.pdf

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