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View Poll Results: If you are currently using LiFePO4 cells for a house bank, propulsion, or both.
Lead is dead, never going back 49 94.23%
Big mistake, going back to lead. 3 5.77%
Voters: 52. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 12-12-2013, 22:59   #76
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Re: A poll Happy with LiFe (PO4)?

Mine are 4 1/2 years old. For someone that is a full time cruiser and cycling at least twice a week year in and year out, I would say LiFePO4 is cheapest in the long run. If you were cycling everyday it is a no brainer, LiFePO4 is definitely the cheapest per usable a-hr.
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Old 12-12-2013, 23:27   #77
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Re: A poll Happy with LiFe (PO4)?

Bob,

Are you saying they have been in service for 4 years?

Or are you saying that the bats are 4 years old?

Lloyd


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Mine are 4 1/2 years old. For someone that is a full time cruiser and cycling at least twice a week year in and year out, I would say LiFePO4 is cheapest in the long run. If you were cycling everyday it is a no brainer, LiFePO4 is definitely the cheapest per usable a-hr.
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Old 12-12-2013, 23:33   #78
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Re: A poll Happy with LiFe (PO4)?

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Originally Posted by FlyingCloud1937 View Post

But you say I need only half the lith... amp hrs, so that makes it $1200.00 USD fora 125 amp bank. Show me the money.

Lloyd
Going cost is $440 USD for a 100 Ah bank (Balqon/Winston)
The REALLY attractive thing besides the advantages of no self discharge and no need to fully charge is the huge charge rate that these batteries can take. Instead of running my engine all day to recover the 100Ah's used the night before, I am hoping to do it in about 45 minutes with a 200A alternator with the output reduced to 150A (for longer life/ cooler operation). Of course that is theoretical at this point but it is where I am hoping to go.
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Old 12-12-2013, 23:35   #79
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Re: A poll Happy with LiFe (PO4)?

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Originally Posted by FlyingCloud1937 View Post
Bob,

Are you saying they have been in service for 4 years?

Or are you saying that the bats are 4 years old?

Lloyd
3 years old before I got them. Some the Balqon old stock.
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Old 12-12-2013, 23:51   #80
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Re: A poll Happy with LiFe (PO4)?

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3 years old before I got them. Some the Balqon old stock.
One year in service, is a big difference to 4 years in service.

I'm looking for something in the 6-9 YO.

I installed 2 lith..banks one is now 3 years old, the other lived a short life due to lightning.

The costs of each exceeded 20k by the time it was all said and done.

Both of these banks were stand-by Nav/Com. Not daily cyclers.

I don't know any one with a LiFepo older then 3 years.

Lloyd
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Old 13-12-2013, 00:00   #81
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Re: A poll Happy with LiFe (PO4)?

T1 Terry has over 800 cycles on his cells, that would be a lot in just 3 years. Did he ever mention their age? From the threads I think he has had them longer than the rest of us.
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Old 13-12-2013, 00:26   #82
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Re: A poll Happy with LiFe (PO4)?

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T1 Terry has over 800 cycles on his cells, that would be a lot in just 3 years. Did he ever mention their age? From the threads I think he has had them longer than the rest of us.
When I worked in banking, we had a rule for all of our commercial officers.

You don't have a customer until you have 4 separate relationships; checking, savings, 401k, plus any one of the various offerings.

At the meeting one member proposed a 500k loan, Pizza Joint; real estate backed, across the street from the Seattle Super Sonics.

It would be the 4th relationship.

I said no, the rest of the board was swayed by the Location, location, location.

In bankruptcy court, it turned out the borrower, was in default to 2 other banks. Held about 6 cash assets in five other institutions that had never lent him a dime.

Lloyd
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Old 13-12-2013, 01:54   #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyingCloud1937 View Post

When I worked in banking, we had a rule for all of our commercial officers.

You don't have a customer until you have 4 separate relationships; checking, savings, 401k, plus any one of the various offerings.

At the meeting one member proposed a 500k loan, Pizza Joint; real estate backed, across the street from the Seattle Super Sonics.

It would be the 4th relationship.

I said no, the rest of the board was swayed by the Location, location, location.

In bankruptcy court, it turned out the borrower, was in default to 2 other banks. Held about 6 cash assets in five other institutions that had never lent him a dime.

Lloyd
A Trojan dealer and a former Banker , its a wonder you able to go outside LOL.

I have to laugh at a former banker giving " lessons" in business/future gazing . That's priceless, given they virtually took the western economy down singlehanded.

Now back to normal programming and cuddly LiFePo4

Remember Lloyd. " there will be only 5 computers in the world " " there is no use for this Telephone " etc.


Dave
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Old 13-12-2013, 02:18   #84
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Re: A poll Happy with LiFe (PO4)?

This is getting interesting
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Old 13-12-2013, 04:46   #85
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Re: A poll Happy with LiFe (PO4)?

Time for a bit of engineering, hey, mates?

Enough of the astrology and witchcraft and banking BS?
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Old 13-12-2013, 06:43   #86
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Re: A poll Happy with LiFe (PO4)?

I paid $86/ea for my current T-105s 4 years ago. I believe the price is still ~$90/ea. Hence, 450ah/225ah useable for $360. That's $1.60/useable ah.

On Balqon the 300/ah LifeP04 are $315/ea = $1260 300ah/240ah useable. That's $5.25/useable ah.

LifeP04 costs 3.25 times more than decent LA. I love new technology, but still struggling with the cost difference.

If I get 6 years from my LA, will Li last 20 years?

Hard to swallow intangibles, it's doubtful Li will change our liveaboard power habits.

What about my existing charging equipment?
- can probably re-program the Balmar to work
- can probably re-program the Sterling shore power charger to work
- solar regulator? need to check voltages
- backup charging plan using alternator with dumb regulator?
- 14.2v constant while motoring? how about for 24 hours of motoring?

Hence, lots of work for no cost savings...?

Hopefully in 2 years if my LA expire, prices will come down on Li, I would really like to use it, but bang for buck has to be there.
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Old 13-12-2013, 06:54   #87
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Re: A poll Happy with LiFe (PO4)?

Quote:
I paid $86/ea for my current T-105s 4 years ago. I believe the price is still ~$90/ea. Hence, 450ah/225ah useable for $360. That's $1.60/useable ah.

On Balqon the 300/ah LifeP04 are $315/ea = $1260 300ah/240ah useable. That's $5.25/useable ah.

LifeP04 costs 3.25 times more than decent LA. I love new technology, but still struggling with the cost difference.

thats comparing a 4 year old price , with current Li pricing ! . A tour round the internet shows T105s at around 130-140 $ .

The second things is that while we say don't discharge LA below 50% , it doesnt mean that we actually get anything like 50% capacity, as very often the battery rarely gets above 85%

wheres the opposite is true for Li, the specs are conservative and because you have little or no equivalent "absorption" mode, you get much closers to delivering the 80% capacity.

Not to mention comparing high demand applications , need to derate LA even more. The fact is that typical LA banks in reality delivery well below 50% in capacity.

dave
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Old 13-12-2013, 07:06   #88
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Re: A poll Happy with LiFe (PO4)?

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Originally Posted by goboatingnow View Post
thats comparing a 4 year old price , with current Li pricing ! . A tour round the internet shows T105s at around 130-140 $ .

The second things is that while we say don't discharge LA below 50% , it doesnt mean that we actually get anything like 50% capacity, as very often the battery rarely gets above 85%

wheres the opposite is true for Li, the specs are conservative and because you have little or no equivalent "absorption" mode, you get much closers to delivering the 80% capacity.

Not to mention comparing high demand applications , need to derate LA even more. The fact is that typical LA banks in reality delivery well below 50% in capacity.

dave
Just got off the phone. T-105's are $92.50 ea. (with core exchange)

So you're saying I could get by with 200ah of Li?

Like I said, I doubt Li would change our power consumption habits.
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Old 13-12-2013, 10:16   #89
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Re: A poll Happy with LiFe (PO4)?

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Originally Posted by FlyingCloud1937 View Post
i am a trojan Dealer,

So I quoted my costs, but to be fair.

I quoted my prices, beginning, middle, and end.

Lloyd


Imho,

Soon to become the equivalent of a Buggy Whip Dealer.

And Lloyd seems to conveniently leave out the Peukert Exponent differences between LiFePo4 and FLA in his bean counting.
A not inconsequential factor.
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Old 13-12-2013, 10:28   #90
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Re: A poll Happy with LiFe (PO4)?

bigwhyte,

Please share your negative experience with LiFePO4.
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