Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 07-03-2011, 17:12   #46
Registered User
 
Extemporaneous's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Canada
Boat: Corbin 39 Special Edition
Posts: 909
Re: 4/0 Lug / Connector Crimper

Quote:
Originally Posted by Extemporaneous View Post
So I'm reading the Greenlee instructions (I know, I'm not supposed to) and they're tell me to crimp a 4/0 Lug twice. It also says to crimp the lug from the end first with the second crimp toward the wire.
This seams counter intuitive to me. Like it would be pinching or squeezing the wire out of the lug instead of trapping it!
Can some explain why that's the direction a 2 crimp connector is done in?

Thanks,
Extemp.
Quote:
Originally Posted by StormSailer View Post
It takes 2 crimps. I have found the following website to be excellent with pictures and instructions of many boat repairs. It's MaineSail's site and it is excellent: thoughtful, understandable, not opinion but really rather "scientific" in that he has really "tested" his results and is willing to share the results of those tests. I can't argue with experience when it is extensive, evaluated and open. Making Your Own Battery Cables Photo Gallery by Compass Marine at pbase.com
this is the site for crimping battery cables. Good luck, seems with MaineSail, and others out there who really are proven "mechanics", it's just "follow the yellow brick road!" Nirvana! Put our pride in our back pocket and instead of re-inventing the wheel, get the job done right the first time and GO SAILING!
Hi Larry,
Thanks for pointing me to Compass Marine's website. I've been going there for a couple of years now I think. I do agree it's excellent and VERY VERY good of MaineSail to maintain a site like that for all to benefit.
That said, I don't understand the rest of your post and I still have my original question. Do you know the answer? Or is my question unclear? It could be. Let me know.

Best Regards,
Extemp.

P.S. I just try to understand the things that may be within my grasp. Heaven know there are many that are not, but I may be able to understand this on if it's explained.
__________________

__________________
Do the best you can EVERY step of the way and maybe, just maybe......
It will be good enough!
Extemporaneous is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-03-2011, 18:02   #47
Registered User
 
Extemporaneous's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Canada
Boat: Corbin 39 Special Edition
Posts: 909
First Crimp! 4/0 Lug / Connector Crimper

Is this crimp acceptable?
It certainly doesn't look very good! The excess in the lug seam to all have been taken to one side. It would look better and I dare say be a better crimp if the excess was equal +- on the two sides but I don't know.

Cut it off and try again or it's okay?

Let me know.
Thanks,
Extemp.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	FirstBatCrimpSide1.jpg
Views:	150
Size:	391.8 KB
ID:	24745   Click image for larger version

Name:	FirstBatCrimpSide2.jpg
Views:	132
Size:	389.8 KB
ID:	24746  

__________________

__________________
Do the best you can EVERY step of the way and maybe, just maybe......
It will be good enough!
Extemporaneous is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-03-2011, 16:37   #48
Registered User
 
Extemporaneous's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Canada
Boat: Corbin 39 Special Edition
Posts: 909
Re: First Crimp! 4/0 Lug / Connector Crimper

Quote:
Originally Posted by Extemporaneous View Post
Is this crimp acceptable?
It certainly doesn't look very good! The excess in the lug seam to all have been taken to one side. It would look better and I dare say be a better crimp if the excess was equal +- on the two sides but I don't know.

Cut it off and try again or it's okay?

Let me know.
Thanks,
Extemp.
Anyone??

Thanks,
Extemp.
__________________
Do the best you can EVERY step of the way and maybe, just maybe......
It will be good enough!
Extemporaneous is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-03-2011, 16:51   #49
֍֎֍֎֍֎֍֎֍֎

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 13,042
Re: 4/0 Lug / Connector Crimper

By islands standards...if you can't tear it out, it is crimped.

OTOH it is curious that there's a "pull" at all. I thought a proper crimp was supposed to be a perfectly hexagonal compression crimp, with no flappy parts sticking out anywhere at all. Indicating...the lugs are oversize, the cable undersize, or the tool die wrong?

Mainesail?
__________________
hellosailor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-03-2011, 17:07   #50
Registered User
 
Extemporaneous's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Canada
Boat: Corbin 39 Special Edition
Posts: 909
Re: 4/0 Lug / Connector Crimper

Quote:
Originally Posted by hellosailor View Post
By islands standards...if you can't tear it out, it is crimped.

OTOH it is curious that there's a "pull" at all. I thought a proper crimp was supposed to be a perfectly hexagonal compression crimp, with no flappy parts sticking out anywhere at all. Indicating...the lugs are oversize, the cable undersize, or the tool die wrong?

Mainesail?
It is definately Ancor 4/0 Boat Cable and as far as the Lugs go.... They were ordered from a reputable company and were also perclaimed to be Ancor 4/0 lugs. And crimped with the proper Greenlee crimper!
But it doesn't seam right. But this is based on nothing but a feeling!
That said, I see it like the halyard of a main sail. You can only get the bottom so tight pulling from the top. Then you need the Cunningham.
Meaning the slack should be equal between the 2 possible locations that could take up slack as opposed to one of two trying to pull all the slack out in one direction. Pure guessing/feeling though based on pure guessing/feeling ;-).

Let me know.

Thanks,
Exemp.
__________________
Do the best you can EVERY step of the way and maybe, just maybe......
It will be good enough!
Extemporaneous is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-03-2011, 17:29   #51
Marine Service Provider
 
Maine Sail's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Maine
Boat: CS-36T - Cupecoy
Posts: 3,060
Re: 4/0 Lug / Connector Crimper

You need to find out what lugs your Greenlee is designed to crimp. Many Greenlee's are designed to crimp the industry standard color coded and marked heavy duty lugs but some may be designed for medium or light duty lugs.

The Ancor lugs are not color/letter coded though many years ago they used to be, before they apparently began commodity shopping their terminals from China. Don't get me going on the poor & inconsistent quality of their terminals lately.

Below is what a heavy duty lug looks like. I use FTZ & Quick Cable lugs and the crimp tool specifically designed for these heavy duty lugs and marked for them. Many company make these color coded heavy duty lugs not just FTZ & Quick Cable.

I would call Greenlee and ask what type of 4/0 lug they are designed for. There are all different types of 4/0 lugs in different "duty" ratings.

Note that my crimp tool is marked for these very specific lugs and the dies are rotated until you match the color and letter codes on the lugs.



All that being said a little "pinch" is not a deal killer but you have a quite a bit of "pinch". Try crimping slower, I go rather slow, and allow the copper to cold form more slowly and you might find less pinch. Does your crimp tool have a lug color or letter code diagram like the one above? If it does use the proper coded lugs to amtch your tool. I suspect the lugs are the wrong size for the dies. Even the right dies and the right lugs can get a little pinch but not that much.

My FTZ crimper used with FTZ or Quick Cable lugs exhibits virtually no pinch and if it does it is nothing more than just a sharper edge on one side but not "squish out" like in your photo....
__________________
Marine How To Articles
Maine Sail is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-03-2011, 18:42   #52
Registered User
 
Extemporaneous's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Canada
Boat: Corbin 39 Special Edition
Posts: 909
Re: 4/0 Lug / Connector Crimper

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maine Sail View Post
You need to find out what lugs your Greenlee is designed to crimp. Many Greenlee's are designed to crimp the industry standard color coded and marked heavy duty lugs but some may be designed for medium or light duty lugs.
See attached. Nope! Ancor or "J & D" are not listed .
My first attachments are from the Manual and on the handle of the Crimper (that's it). There are color codes on the die of the Crimper. I have it set to the 4/0 position which looks more purple then pink.
http://www.mygreenlee.com/GreenleeDo...M1289REV02.pdf
Well...... it's a good thing I only bought 30 of these Lugs .
I don't think I've given up yet!! !!

Thanks,
Extemp.

Forgot to mention... at least the cutters I bought are good :-)
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	screenshot.08-03-2011 19.42.07.png
Views:	151
Size:	35.2 KB
ID:	24816   Click image for larger version

Name:	screenshot.08-03-2011 20.03.18.png
Views:	122
Size:	13.7 KB
ID:	24817  

Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_0002.jpg
Views:	127
Size:	313.2 KB
ID:	24819   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_0003.jpg
Views:	152
Size:	411.3 KB
ID:	24820  

Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_0005.jpg
Views:	126
Size:	404.3 KB
ID:	24821  
__________________
Do the best you can EVERY step of the way and maybe, just maybe......
It will be good enough!
Extemporaneous is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-03-2011, 19:08   #53
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 181
Re: 4/0 Lug / Connector Crimper

I just tried a 6AWG connector purchased thru Guinedealz using my Greenlee 8-1/0 crimper out of curiousity. Mine left very little burrs, but equal on both sides. Almost thin enough to cut off with a knife if I wanted. From the looks of your 1st crimp, it appears the lug was a bit off center. Meaning 1 end of the dies were closer in contact than the other side before crimped. While the rotating dies do lock in position, they do have a bit of free movement allowing them to rotate a little. Might try to position the lug in the dies so that the dies have an equal space between the ends before doing the crimp. I then cut the crimp open and found to have a solid crimp. Very pleased with the outcome.

The indentification die color dots on my crimper do not coincide with the color chart in Maine Sails post.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	crimp1.JPG
Views:	1147
Size:	364.8 KB
ID:	24822  
__________________
US1Fountain is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-03-2011, 19:57   #54
Registered User
 
Extemporaneous's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Canada
Boat: Corbin 39 Special Edition
Posts: 909
Re: 4/0 Lug / Connector Crimper

Just tried another Crimp. Not any better! Could be me, but I don't think so. One thing that comes to mind is in another thread there was talk of having a very good cut otherwise the strands would not all fit into the connector. I could probably cut this wire by beating it with a hammer and still be able to fit 99% of the strands into the connector!
Measured with digital caliper the inside of the connectors are very close to 16mm right on! The wire on the other hand is less then 14.5mm. Seams like allot!! Note that it's hard to measure stranded wire OD of strands. I think I'm very close though.
Also with the way that the Ancor crimper works, I doubt this size difference would make as much difference.

I will continue to look at this. One thing I know, I didn't invest what I have so far (in the cable, crimper, connectors) to live with what I'm seeing.

Any more comments are appreciated.
Extemp.
__________________
Do the best you can EVERY step of the way and maybe, just maybe......
It will be good enough!
Extemporaneous is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-03-2011, 20:04   #55
Marine Service Provider
 
Maine Sail's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Maine
Boat: CS-36T - Cupecoy
Posts: 3,060
Re: 4/0 Lug / Connector Crimper

Quote:
Originally Posted by Extemporaneous View Post
See attached. Nope! Ancor or "J & D" are not listed .
My first attachments are from the Manual and on the handle of the Crimper (that's it). There are color codes on the die of the Crimper. I have it set to the 4/0 position which looks more purple then pink.
http://www.mygreenlee.com/GreenleeDo...M1289REV02.pdf
Well...... it's a good thing I only bought 30 of these Lugs .
I don't think I've given up yet!! !!

Thanks,
Extemp.

Forgot to mention... at least the cutters I bought are good :-)
It appears your tool is designed for what are referred to as industrial copper compression lugs. They use a slightly different die code than do "power lugs" which is what we use in the marine industry or for battery terminals. The copper compression lugs often have a sight window and are a extruded then the end stamped flat. heavy duty power lugs or battery lugs are completely sealed.

The difference between these dies and how to cross them over I don't have an answer for but a call to Greenlee might solve the issue. Even with "power lugs" and the tool I use there is a big difference between the standard/light duty lugs and the heavy duty one I showed above. This is why I only use marked lugs with both color code and die settings stamped into the lug.

For the heavy duty power lugs a 4/0 uses the "Yellow AA" die setting. The same lug in light duty uses "Purple AB". Purple AB is the die setting for a 3/0 heavy duty lug. So the light duty lugs are a full 0 down from the heavy duty version. I don't know if the industrial standard can be converted over to the battery lug standard or not. They both use similar colors but I don't know if they cross over.

Copper Compression Lug Image courtesy electdirect.com
__________________
Marine How To Articles
Maine Sail is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-03-2011, 20:11   #56
Registered User
 
Extemporaneous's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Canada
Boat: Corbin 39 Special Edition
Posts: 909
Re: 4/0 Lug / Connector Crimper

Shouldn't AWG be AWG??
The connector seams quite loose.

Regards,
Extemp.
__________________
Do the best you can EVERY step of the way and maybe, just maybe......
It will be good enough!
Extemporaneous is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-03-2011, 20:22   #57
Registered User
 
Extemporaneous's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Canada
Boat: Corbin 39 Special Edition
Posts: 909
Re: 4/0 Lug / Connector Crimper

Looks like the same ones I have. Lugs & Battery Terminals | Marinco
Also went to Genuinedealz and had a look at their Lugs. They don't name the manufacturer and I can't tell anything from the pictures.
I will make some inquires and I think I'll cut one or two open. Tomorrow.

Dam, I thought I did the legwork on this!!

Thanks,
Extemp.
__________________
Do the best you can EVERY step of the way and maybe, just maybe......
It will be good enough!
Extemporaneous is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-03-2011, 20:48   #58
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 181
Re: 4/0 Lug / Connector Crimper

Yes, the photos at Guineuindelz are a generic photo, 1 photo covers all, with no specs.

These are connectors I have bought from them.

1st lug, 6AWG standard lug,
middle lug, 1 AWG standard,
3rd lug, 4 AWG, heavy wall

There is a good difference of wall thickness between the standard 1AWG and the HD wall 4AWG.

My standard 1awg looks just like the Ancor brand HD lug. Course this is going just by the photos and lack of markings.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	crimps.jpg
Views:	139
Size:	397.1 KB
ID:	24823  
__________________
US1Fountain is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-03-2011, 20:55   #59
Registered User
 
Extemporaneous's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Canada
Boat: Corbin 39 Special Edition
Posts: 909
Re: 4/0 Lug / Connector Crimper

Quote:
Originally Posted by US1Fountain View Post
Yeas, the photos at Guineuindelz are a generic photo, 1 photo covers all, with no specs.

These are connectors I have bought from them.

1st lug, 6AWG standard lug,
middle lug, 1 AWG standard,
3rd lug, 4 AWG, heavy wall
Thanks for taking the time to photograph and post!

At Genuinedealz they only have 4/0 Lugs with either 5/16" or 1/2" holes. I do need a few of the 5/16" ones but mostly 3/8".
I think I may order a couple of the 4/0 x 5/16" Lugs from them and check them out.

Thanks,
Extemp.
__________________
Do the best you can EVERY step of the way and maybe, just maybe......
It will be good enough!
Extemporaneous is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-03-2011, 20:58   #60
Marine Service Provider
 
Maine Sail's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Maine
Boat: CS-36T - Cupecoy
Posts: 3,060
Re: 4/0 Lug / Connector Crimper

Quote:
Originally Posted by US1Fountain View Post
Yeas, the photos at Guineuindelz are a generic photo, 1 photo covers all, with no specs.

These are connectors I have bought from them.

1st lug, 6AWG standard lug,
middle lug, 1 AWG standard,
3rd lug, 4 AWG, heavy wall
So without any markings on the "light duty" lugs how do you know which dies to use? You really don't. Can GD tell you which dies to use on them & will they give you this data?? Perhaps they will.

The lug on the right is properly marked to be used with the rotating die heads of the same markings. I have the cross reference for FTZ's light duty lugs but who knows whose lugs those are and if the specs are even similar? You know when you get the color and die stamped lugs that they meet an industry standard. Without any markings it's like going to Vegas.

A good rule with lugs is to only buy color coded lugs with the corresponding dies stamped into the lug. they make it a LOT easier on the installer when the time comes to select the dies and make the crimps.
__________________

__________________
Marine How To Articles
Maine Sail is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Cable Lug Stud Size Rating US1Fountain Electrical: Batteries, Generators & Solar 9 16-02-2011 14:45
Battery Lug Crimpers US1Fountain Electrical: Batteries, Generators & Solar 6 22-01-2011 09:58
Relative Sail Area - Marconi vs Chinese Lug Ben M-P Deck hardware: Rigging, Sails & Hoisting 0 16-12-2010 10:42
New Dies for a Heavy-Duty Crimper ? Beausoleil Electrical: Batteries, Generators & Solar 2 30-06-2010 09:02
bolt-rope to sail-lug conversion? San Juan Bob Monohull Sailboats 10 20-07-2008 10:20



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 18:38.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.