4/0 Lug / Connector Crimper

[Extemporaneous]

Quick question. I think the right people are here to answer this already and so I won't start a new thread.

For my house battery bank I'm taking individual cables from each of my four 215Amp/hr batteries to a BlueSea Power Post. That will make 5 lugs stacked on it! The same will go for the Positive and the Negative. The 5th lug/cable will leave the Power Post and in the case of the Negative will then go through my shunt (Link 10) and then to a 600 Amp, 8 terminal bus bar for distribution. In the case of the Positive, the 5th lug/cable will go to a Class T 350 Amp fuss and then go to a 600 Amp, 8 terminal bus bar for distribution.

My question is..... Will too much resistance be created Stacking 5 terminals on the Power Post and there for I should be using an additional bus bar instead of the Power Posts? The bus bars that I know are available only come in 4 terminal and 8 terminal and so if I went with the 4 terminal I'd still have one terminal with 2 lugs on it!
Note that if I stay with the Power Posts I would place the "5th" Lug in the middle.

Thanks,
Extemp.

[F51]

Someone will correct me if I am wrong, but I believe that ABYC standards limit you to 4 lugs on one stud. If you had one of the 4 terminal bus bars, you could put the 5th one on top of another. That way you would have only two of the permitted 4 on that stud.

[kismet]

Originally Posted by btrayfors

Yes, the Swage-It tool works quite well. I've used mine on occasion for emergencies, when I didn't have a proper crimp tool available.

However, unless you have an abundance of time on your hands -- or don't consider your time very valuable -- you'd be much better off with a proper crimp tool.

Bill

The reason I asked is because I just used it to put stops on the new steering cable that I just installed a couple of days ago, and using this tool is a real job. That being said, battery cables might be easier to do. In the past I always soldered my cable ends.

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by Extemporaneous

I should be using an additional bus bar instead of the Power Posts? The bus bars that I know are available only come in 4 terminal and 8 terminal and so if I went with the 4 terminal I'd still have one terminal with 2 lugs on it!

Hi Extemp. Go for the bus bar with 4 studs. Use 3 of the 4: the middle one for the cable to fuse/shunt and two batteries per post on each side. The 4th is your spare.

This photo shows the bus bar and fuse holder with cabling, but I only have 3 batteries so could put each cable on it own stud.

Edit: you also get small screw connections for voltage sense wires like the one on the photo.

cheers,
Nick.

[Extemporaneous]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

Hi Extemp. Go for the bus bar with 4 studs. Use 3 of the 4: the middle one for the cable to fuse/shunt and two batteries per post on each side. The 4th is your spare.

This photo shows the bus bar and fuse holder with cabling, but I only have 3 batteries so could put each cable on it own stud.

Edit: you also get small screw connections for voltage sense wires like the one on the photo.

cheers,
Nick.

Done, parts ordered. Nick your an expensive guy get advice from ;-)
But I keep going back for more so I guess I don't mind that much.

Cheers,
Extemp.

[pumpcity]

Hasn't anyone heard of bypassing the crimp thing and going directly to soldered lug connections? Using standard electrical rosin core solder, heat the lug and melt solder to fill the lug halfway. Then with flux pasted to the electrical cable bare end, heat the lug until the solder is liquid, then slowly insert the electrical cable until the solder wicks into the cable and the cable is fully inserted into the lug. Then use adhesive lined shrink tubing to seal up the space between cable insulation and lug. Makes for a sturdy connection.

Comments?

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by pumpcity

Hasn't anyone heard of bypassing the crimp thing and going directly to soldered lug connections? Using standard electrical rosin core solder, heat the lug and melt solder to fill the lug halfway. Then with flux pasted to the electrical cable bare end, heat the lug until the solder is liquid, then slowly insert the electrical cable until the solder wicks into the cable and the cable is fully inserted into the lug. Then use adhesive lined shrink tubing to seal up the space between cable insulation and lug. Makes for a sturdy connection.

Comments?

Yes, I tried that because I have a bad crimper. The problem with 1/0 and bigger cables is that the solder never wicks into the cable during that process. While you insert the cable into the lug, you must do it very fast or it will solidify the solder before being fully inserted. If you heat longer, you burn the cover on the cable.

I did a quick insert and normal crimp after that. This provided some extra mechanical strength for the so-so crimper.

cheers,
Nick.

[mbianka]

Originally Posted by pumpcity

Hasn't anyone heard of bypassing the crimp thing and going directly to soldered lug connections? Using standard electrical rosin core solder, heat the lug and melt solder to fill the lug halfway. Then with flux pasted to the electrical cable bare end, heat the lug until the solder is liquid, then slowly insert the electrical cable until the solder wicks into the cable and the cable is fully inserted into the lug. Then use adhesive lined shrink tubing to seal up the space between cable insulation and lug. Makes for a sturdy connection.

Comments?

IMO You really want to limit the amount of different metals on board especially in electrical connections and especialy on boats in salt water. Adding solder into the connection a mixture of tin and lead could invite more corrosion and more trouble. It's also important to have a good mechanical connection and not just rely on solder bonds. Just imagine what happens if the connection starts increasing in resistance or start to come loose from a terminal. You connector will start to heat up possibly enough to melt the solder and your heat shrink and pretty soon you have a failed connection. You really want a good crimp to keep things together.

[pumpcity]

Good point on the dissimilar metals. Regarding the issue of larger wire with solder. Yes, you still have to heat the joint until the wire wicks the solder and I do get some insulation burn, but heat shrink with adhesive fixes that.

[Tellie]

Like I said eailer I prefer the Greenlee. I used them extensivly when I was a commercial electrician and one lives on my boat now. But I just discovered my old back up crimper deep in the shop yesterday and remembered this thread. I used it many times and it works perfectly. It is the same stlye as the blue handled dial in Anchor linked below. I'd sell it for $50 if you pay the shipping.
It crimps Alum. from #8, #6, #4, #2, 1/0, 2/0, 4/0
Copper from #8, #6, #4, #2, 1, 1/0, 2/0, 3/0, 4/0, 250, A

It's a bit oily and scuffed but if interested just give me a shout.

Ancor Heavy Duty Lug/Terminal Crimper

[Extemporaneous]

Originally Posted by Tellie

Like I said eailer I prefer the Greenlee. I used them extensivly when I was a commercial electrician and one lives on my boat now. But I just discovered my old back up crimper deep in the shop yesterday and remembered this thread. I used it many times and it works perfectly. It is the same stlye as the blue handled dial in Anchor linked below. I'd sell it for $50 if you pay the shipping.
It crimps Alum. from #8, #6, #4, #2, 1/0, 2/0, 4/0
Copper from #8, #6, #4, #2, 1, 1/0, 2/0, 3/0, 4/0, 250, A

It's a bit oily and scuffed but if interested just give me a shout.

Ancor Heavy Duty Lug/Terminal Crimper

The Ancor doesn't crimp the same way as the Greenlee.

Regards,
Extemp.

[Tellie]

Originally Posted by Extemporaneous

The Ancor doesn't crimp the same way as the Greenlee.

Regards,
Extemp.

Nope, but it's been done that way sucessfully for many moons.

[Extemporaneous]

A short incomplete report ;-)

Got my GREENLEE K09-2GL CRIMPING TOOL today. It looks very nice. Made in Germany. I doubt I'll be able to make it through tomorrow without trying it. Also on a different thread (http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...ble-32637.html) there was discussion about cutting 4/0 cable. A few recommended the Klein 9" cable cutters. Got those also and regardless of it being written right on them for Max 4/0 Aluminum or 2/0 Copper, I'm please to say they cut through 4/0 stranded copper almost like butter.
Also tried a little experiment to strip the insulation off the 4/0 cable. I used my copper tubing cutter. It worked great and never cut a single strand of copper!

Cheers,
Extemp.

[Extemporaneous]

So I'm reading the Greenlee instructions (I know, I'm not supposed to) and they're tell me to crimp a 4/0 Lug twice. It also says to crimp the lug from the end first with the second crimp toward the wire.
This seams counter intuitive to me. Like it would be pinching or squeezing the wire out of the lug instead of trapping it!
Can some explain why that's the direction a 2 crimp connector is done in?

Thanks,
Extemp.

[StormSailer]

It takes 2 crimps. I have found the following website to be excellent with pictures and instructions of many boat repairs. It's MaineSail's site and it is excellent: thoughtful, understandable, not opinion but really rather "scientific" in that he has really "tested" his results and is willing to share the results of those tests. I can't argue with experience when it is extensive, evaluated and open. Making Your Own Battery Cables Photo Gallery by Compass Marine at pbase.com
this is the site for crimping battery cables. Good luck, seems with MaineSail, and others out there who really are proven "mechanics", it's just "follow the yellow brick road!" Nirvana! Put our pride in our back pocket and instead of re-inventing the wheel, get the job done right the first time and GO SAILING!