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Old 04-04-2019, 06:24   #31
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Re: 220v to 110v. Where do I start?

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Originally Posted by john61ct View Post
And aircon can run off a big inverter no problem, just need a soft start, and don't run it long off the battery bank, your power source (charger) needs to be running to keep the bank full long as the aircon is running.
Yes all possible.
Not commonly done.
Most will have airconds and water heaters not running through an Inverter but directly from a dock feed.
May not even need a Soft start depending how small the air cond is and how big the Inverter is. A Soft start is a good idea though.
What you could get away with and would be better to have arent the same and will cost more.
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Old 04-04-2019, 19:35   #32
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Re: 220v to 110v. Where do I start?

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Well I can see OP getting confused.

Aircon should not be abbreviated AC when that is also used for shore power generally.

OP, yes the battery charger part is AC to DC. Sterling is a great brand, also Victron and others.

Inverter is back the other way. Victron makes combi units, charger + inverter in one.

If you have aircon, that can get its own circuit treated separately from the rest.

Otherwise for simplicity I believe my first post is the best approach, no worries about transformers nor 50 vs 60 Hz compatibility, can mix and match whatever appliances,, boat can travel anywhere in the future, etc.

But if you follow the "full conversion" approach, just pay professionals don't mess with it yourself.
Thank you! I feel good about understanding the battery charger/inverter system and a victron is a possibility in the future. They seem to have a good reputation.

When you say its own circuit, could you explain that a bit more. What are the pieces of the circuit that are required to run an aircon unit? I believe your last paragraph is in regards to the separate circuit; if I can run an aircon unit on a seperate circuit then I won't have to worry about a transformer. Correct?

(Sailboat lingo took me a couple months, hopefully I pick up electrical lingo at the same rate)
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Old 04-04-2019, 23:53   #33
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Re: 220v to 110v. Where do I start?

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Originally Posted by SaltedEgg View Post
Thank you! I feel good about understanding the battery charger/inverter system and a victron is a possibility in the future. They seem to have a good reputation.

When you say its own circuit, could you explain that a bit more. What are the pieces of the circuit that are required to run an aircon unit? I believe your last paragraph is in regards to the separate circuit; if I can run an aircon unit on a seperate circuit then I won't have to worry about a transformer. Correct?

(Sailboat lingo took me a couple months, hopefully I pick up electrical lingo at the same rate)
Seperate circuit you are asking about. I assume you are referring to my mention of most people running their water heater and aircon directly from a dock feed.

When you say 'transformer', I assume you are talking about an Inverter? Some of the previous posters were talking about an Auto transformer. It can be done this way too.

Many advantages with an Auto transformer- electrical isolation of boat from shore to stop stray current endangering swimmers or corroding boat metals. You can also manually have many different input and output voltages. But not frequency.

This set up is direct AC power from the dock power. So needs to match your aircon input required. Its mostly done this way so those big aircon and hot water loads dont have to be supplied through the Inverter.

If you do that you need to have your dock power the same voltage and freq as your aircon unit. Which is what you are trying to avoid?

But if your Inverter is big enough to handle those loads then you can do it.

The 'secret' is have a multi voltage input charger. So you plug your boat into any deck power voltage anywhere in the world.

Also big enough to keep up with the load and or recharge your battery.
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Old 05-04-2019, 02:29   #34
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Re: 220v to 110v. Where do I start?

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Originally Posted by john61ct View Post
My approach would be a big charger that accepts any AC worldwide.

Then inverters to power the AC devices.

Mix and match as you see fit.
This is how I would handle it unless you eventually want to start using a lot of 220v devices.

The big advantage is you can get an inverter that provides both the correct voltage and hertz.

Step Down transformers only adjust the voltage...some devices don't care about hertz but some do.
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Old 05-04-2019, 02:36   #35
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Re: 220v to 110v. Where do I start?

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Yes all possible.
Not commonly done.
Most will have airconds and water heaters not running through an Inverter but directly from a dock feed.
May not even need a Soft start depending how small the air cond is and how big the Inverter is. A Soft start is a good idea though.
What you could get away with and would be better to have arent the same and will cost more.
It's not commonly done because most boats are built with AC systems that match local power...so there is no need to do it.

The issue only comes up if you move a boat from 220v to 110v land (or vise versa).
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Old 05-04-2019, 02:58   #36
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Re: 220v to 110v. Where do I start?

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FWIW,,
My Gemini 105 MC was made in the USA and all its wiring is 3 wire, 110 volts, they made 1200 of them all the same,
It dont have a battery charger or a transformer, It does have an 80 amp alternator on the deisel,

My 36 foot RV, Foretravel Grand Villa, Was made in the USA, they made 6000 of them, All with 3 wire, 110 volts,
Explain 3 wire 110v?
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Old 05-04-2019, 03:55   #37
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Re: 220v to 110v. Where do I start?

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Originally Posted by SaltedEgg View Post
When you say its own circuit, could you explain that a bit more. What are the pieces of the circuit that are required to run an aircon unit?
Just the physical wiring + CB to connect the aircon to the dock power, so needs to be directly compatible.

Everything else goes through the DC + inverter(s) so that's where you're free to mix & match.
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Old 05-04-2019, 03:56   #38
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Re: 220v to 110v. Where do I start?

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Explain 3 wire 110v?
L+N plus ground
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Old 05-04-2019, 04:20   #39
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Re: 220v to 110v. Where do I start?

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Originally Posted by john61ct View Post
L+N plus ground
Ground is not a current carrying conductor so it does not count. You are looking at 2 wire 120V, L+N. Three wire is only used for 240v in a 120-0-120 configuration.
Just to be picky, there is no nominal voltage 110v. The USA uses the following nominal voltages - 120, 240, 208/120, 480/277, 480.
Usually when I mention this, somebody contradicts me and says his voltage is 116v. The voltage on any system will vary by load, distance from source, voltage drop on service, etc. These are not measured voltages, they are nominal voltages.
To make it even more confusing, motors use a different nominal voltage. Air conditioning units designed for 480V use 460V motors, for some historical reason.
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Old 05-04-2019, 05:03   #40
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Re: 220v to 110v. Where do I start?

After building 1200 of these boats, And having EC approvals along with what ever USA regs they must comply with,
My boat has 110 Volts, 3 wires, One active, One Nuetral, and one earth or ground wire,
The earth or ground wire is connected to the metal case of any thing metal that the power is connected too,
It dont have power running thru it, Unless there is a short,

In a house, its connected to an earth stake driven 3 feet into the ground,
But on a boat thats not connected to shore power,
I assume you will get electrocuted as it is not connected to an earth, The ground,
Not being a sparky, Im not sure how this works at sea,

But this was my 110 volt system on my boat, Which is now 240 Volt, Running off an Invertor from a 12 volt battery,
I no longer have shore power, Its been removed,
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Old 05-04-2019, 07:21   #41
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Re: 220v to 110v. Where do I start?

Yes, the term is technically Common or Reference rather than true "Earth Ground" in any mobile context.

Super-critical high safety use cases like operating theaters are also "floating" ground.

Specialists required, boats also need to take into account galvanic corrosion and potential to electrocute nearby swimmers.

These factors are part of why I prefer a mostly-DC low-voltage setup, only connection to shore power is the charger(s).

Those with lots of high-powered mod-con loads designed for mains should hire a proper marine-experienced electrician.
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Old 06-04-2019, 23:44   #42
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220v to 110v. Where do I start?

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Originally Posted by SaltedEgg View Post
I believe you mean air conditioner when you say AC. This means that if I split into 2 feeds I could use 1) Shore power -> step down isolation transformer -> house bank -> AC inverter (when needed) 2) Shore power -> Air Con



Bear with me, as a visual learner, this is difficult to wrap my head around.


No what I meant was
Plug an extension cord into the dock AC plug
Bring the cord into the boat and attach it to a breaker then a GFI box
Then plug 2 lines into the GFI receotacle
One would go to the battery charger
The other would power the Air Conditioner

Anything else requiring AC on the boat could be run off the inverter

Very high level and of course code should be followed.
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Old 07-04-2019, 03:55   #43
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Re: 220v to 110v. Where do I start?

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Originally Posted by masonc View Post
Ground is not a current carrying conductor so it does not count. You are looking at 2 wire 120V, L+N. Three wire is only used for 240v in a 120-0-120 configuration.
Just to be picky, there is no nominal voltage 110v. The USA uses the following nominal voltages - 120, 240, 208/120, 480/277, 480.
Usually when I mention this, somebody contradicts me and says his voltage is 116v. The voltage on any system will vary by load, distance from source, voltage drop on service, etc. These are not measured voltages, they are nominal voltages.
To make it even more confusing, motors use a different nominal voltage. Air conditioning units designed for 480V use 460V motors, for some historical reason.
There are 3 conductors (ie: wires)..the fact that the ground carries no current when the system is operating correctly doesn't change the fact there are 3 conductors.

Also 110v or 120v is commonly used when referring to the nominal voltage and anyone who isn't being pedantic knows they are the same. If you want to get pedantic, there are historical 110v, 115v and 120v nominal voltages but for all practical purposes, they are the same thing. Actual measured voltage is a different matter.
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Old 07-04-2019, 06:02   #44
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Re: 220v to 110v. Where do I start?

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Originally Posted by chouliha View Post
Plug an extension cord into the dock AC plug
Bring the cord into the boat and attach it to a breaker then a GFI box
Then plug 2 lines into the GFI receotacle
One would go to the battery charger
The other would power the Air Conditioner

Anything else requiring AC on the boat could be run off the inverter
+1 to this, at least conceptually, long as the aircon is compatible with the shore power in that location.

With a professional at least signing off on the shore-power bits.

The total load vs quality & gauge & length of that "extension cord" needs careful attention, along with a safe sizing of the main input breaker.

But no AC transformer a big plus IMO.
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Old 07-04-2019, 07:54   #45
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Re: 220v to 110v. Where do I start?

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Originally Posted by john61ct View Post
+1 to this, at least conceptually, long as the aircon is compatible with the shore power in that location.

With a professional at least signing off on the shore-power bits.

The total load vs quality & gauge & length of that "extension cord" needs careful attention, along with a safe sizing of the main input breaker.

But no AC transformer a big plus IMO.
The transformer is the biggest plus of the setup because it not only provides the best safety for people aboard and swimming around the boat, but also for all under water metals on the boat. Nothing else can provide that level of protection and at the same time the transformer can make 240V out of 120V shore power so it's a win-win-win.

The described setup sounds very much like the diagram I have posted on other threads as well. The breakers described are what is the "input breaker panel" in my diagram. Where it differs is that I support both 60Hz and 50Hz outlets aboard (2nd inverter/charger can be omitted), add a genset (can be left out) plus use shore power directly inside the boat when possible. You can change that last point and always use an inverter, but then you need a separate battery charger which does more to complicate things than making them easier.

I attached my diagram again FYI.
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