220v to 110v. Where do I start?

[john61ct]

Batteries are not touched as long as the charger(s) are sized to carry the load.

In fact the PowerAssist feature e.g Victron series can combine battery with mains input when the supplied mains is not enough. Then seamlessly goes back to charging mode.

[CarinaPDX]

Originally Posted by john61ct

Batteries are not touched as long as the charger(s) are sized to carry the load.

Not quite true, or at least "it depends". It is true for the old ferro-resonant chargers and power supplies but modern PWM chargers output in pulses, counting on the battery to act as a giant capacitor to keep the voltage level. The result is each pulse charges the battery and between pulses the battery discharges if there is a load. With high current draw for an inverter driving large loads this to-and-fro adds "wear" to the battery. At least that is what I have read in the past and it seems right.

Greg

[ttex]

Originally Posted by sailcrazy

Sorry, beg to differ. 220 has a neutral, a ground, and 2 hots. either hot-neutral is 110v, and between the 2 hots is 220v; it's 4 wires last time I checked.

No need to be sorry, you are absolutely correct. I am an electrician on land. I just bought a boat two days ago and I am the start of learning how marine electric is a bit different.

Turns out I have more to learn. But that is the fun part!

[Mr B]

I have just done that, 110 Volts to 240 volts,
USA 110 volts to Australian 240 volts,

It all runs off 500 watts of solar panels, thru a 100 amp solar controller to a 300 amphr AGM,
I have a 5000 Watt pure sine Invertor with a surge of 10,000 watts,
Which comes straight off the battery,

The 110 volt wiring is very heavy compared to Australian standards, So I left it in and just changed the outlets to 3 pin Australian ones,
It was all 3 wires same as Australia,

The invertor uses 4 amps just to run it whether its off or on,
Which dont bother me as I have gone 12 volts with every thing,
Its cheaper to buy than 240 volt gear,
The only thing that I will use 240 volts for is a micro wave, If I actually put one in the boat,

My fridge - Freezer and stove is Propane,

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by CarinaPDX

Not quite true, or at least "it depends". It is true for the old ferro-resonant chargers and power supplies but modern PWM chargers output in pulses, counting on the battery to act as a giant capacitor to keep the voltage level. The result is each pulse charges the battery and between pulses the battery discharges if there is a load. With high current draw for an inverter driving large loads this to-and-fro adds "wear" to the battery. At least that is what I have read in the past and it seems right.

Greg

I have a new Victron and it charges using a neat, clean DC current. My batteries are not touched when another inverter takes the charger output

I can believe that there are chargers that only charge part of the time. They are the new fake chargers :-)

[chouliha]

Originally Posted by SaltedEgg

Hey all,



I just bought a Westsail 32 that is wired for 110v. I purchased her in Thailand and plan to do some bottom work there before sailing her back to Malaysia, where I live and work, for a year. The marina in Malaysia that she will be at gets very little breeze so I'll be running an air conditioner, plus other electronics for the year. After that year, I plan to cruise for 2 years in the pacific living on the hook the whole time. Currently, there are many 110v power tools aboard such as grinders, drills, sanders, etc. that I'd like to use. My questions are:



What are your initial thoughts?



Should I get a step down transformer. If so, where do I start?



Should I rewire her to take 220v? Thoughts on power tools?



Bring on the wisdom

We do something similar to previous answers. We are a 110V boat and cruising in a 220V area. We have a Sterling battery charger that we plug direct into the docks 220V power and then run everything on the boat via the Inverter. When we are away from the dock we then plug the charger into our 110V Honda generator to charge the batteries

In your case I would bring the cord from the dock and split it into 2 feeds. One to go to the battery charger and the other to the AC unit. I think you maybe hard pressed to run the AC off your inverter.

Good luck

Chuck
Jacaranda
French Polynesia

[SaltedEgg]

Originally Posted by Mr B

I have just done that, 110 Volts to 240 volts,
USA 110 volts to Australian 240 volts,

It all runs off 500 watts of solar panels, thru a 100 amp solar controller to a 300 amphr AGM,
I have a 5000 Watt pure sine Invertor with a surge of 10,000 watts,
Which comes straight off the battery,

The 110 volt wiring is very heavy compared to Australian standards, So I left it in and just changed the outlets to 3 pin Australian ones,
It was all 3 wires same as Australia,

The invertor uses 4 amps just to run it whether its off or on,
Which dont bother me as I have gone 12 volts with every thing,
Its cheaper to buy than 240 volt gear,
The only thing that I will use 240 volts for is a micro wave, If I actually put one in the boat,

My fridge - Freezer and stove is Propane,

I have no solar panels at the moment. I'm considering them for cruising but, like others said, hooking up an air con unit to the batteries isn't a great idea.

It sounds like your system converts DC to 240v AC. Is that correct? So your system is: solar panels -> charge controller -> batteries -> 240v inverter.
Are you able to hook up to shore power to charge your batteries? Do you run an ain con unit?

[SaltedEgg]

Originally Posted by chouliha

We do something similar to previous answers. We are a 110V boat and cruising in a 220V area. We have a Sterling battery charger that we plug direct into the docks 220V power and then run everything on the boat via the Inverter. When we are away from the dock we then plug the charger into our 110V Honda generator to charge the batteries

In your case I would bring the cord from the dock and split it into 2 feeds. One to go to the battery charger and the other to the AC unit. I think you maybe hard pressed to run the AC off your inverter.

Good luck

Chuck
Jacaranda
French Polynesia

I believe you mean air conditioner when you say AC. This means that if I split into 2 feeds I could use 1) Shore power -> step down isolation transformer -> house bank -> AC inverter (when needed) 2) Shore power -> Air Con

Bear with me, as a visual learner, this is difficult to wrap my head around.

[SaltedEgg]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

I have a new Victron and it charges using a neat, clean DC current. My batteries are not touched when another inverter takes the charger output

I can believe that there are chargers that only charge part of the time. They are the new fake chargers :-)

I feel like you used some Jedi mind tricks there because I don't know what happened.

So your victron converts 240AC to DC? This is gunna sound stupid, but do all sailboat convert AC to DC in order to charge the batteries. I know batteries are charged at around 14.7v. My brain is failing me at the moment.

Anyway, your Victron converts 240AC to DC which is available for use on your boat without going through the batteries? What do you mean by your batteries are not touched when another inverter takes the charger output? I'm assuming the Victron is the first inverter. What is the second inverter? What is the charger output?

Bear with me please.

[SaltedEgg]

Originally Posted by Q Xopa

Yes agree with John. Sterling chargers are 90-250vac 50or60Hz input.
Connect it via an ECLI.

Then get your Invertor to suit with the correct input voltage, 12v I assume, 110vac 60 Hz output. Im a fan of the Victron Inverters but there are others. Dont scimp and get a marine one. Make sure you dont have connected Ground and Nuetrals etc.

I don't know why I am having such a hard time wrapping my head around the idea of a battery charger. What are some popular brands?

So if I want to run 220/240v on my boat I need to get a different battery charger to plug into 240v shore power. Then I would keep the same batteries because the new battery charger would give the batteries that proper voltage they need to charge. The batteries would send power to the new 220/240v inverter which would then power the outlets on the boat.

Another thought:

Could I just run a shore cable from the shore power source to an air con unit?

Then get some solar panels to keep the batteries topped up. Which would require panels and a charge controller. I would have to limit my electricity use on the boat for a year but I'm sure I could run refrigeration (dual cold plate turned on once daily until the anti free freezes which creates a freezer on one side and fridge on the other), some lights, and a cell phone charger off the panels. Just another thought.

[masonc]

Originally Posted by sailcrazy

Recognize that 110v (US power) is 3-wire. 220v (US power is 4-wire.....BIG difference. Asia, and most of the world is 230v 3-wire, 50Hz. IF your boat is wired for 110vAC, then the wire sizes are more than enough to support the load at 230v. And almost all appliances, and alot of electronics are 50Hz and 60Hz tolerant.....but some are not. Almost all 60Hz motors will run just fine on 50Hz, except they run about 15% slower-and on some that can cause overheating and eventual failure. We have just the opposite problem...our boat was built for Asia, and for 230v, 50Hz, 3-wire power. That was fine when we sailed Asia (for 10+years) and the Medd. But now, in the Caribbean, we have run into US power (110v, 60Hz, 3-wire). We...finally...solved the issue by installing a Victron auto-sensing Isolation transformer. Not particularly cheap, but they work. It senses incoming power, either steps it or not to the power you chose, and provides power to your house like it's used to getting. And it provides isolation as well if in a marina. Look into it-they work, and work well.

US power 120v is not three wire. US 240v is three wire, known as split phase. It is derived by using a 240v transformer that has a center tap, which is grounded. Therefore you have two taps of 120v and you get 240v across the two non-grounded conductors.
Small US wired boats (not megayachts) have one circuit of 120v, which is two current carrying conductors. The rest of the world is two current carrying conductors and 230v.
If you don't want to change your boat from 120v, get a 240:120v transformer. My boat when I bought it had 120v wiring and a transformer sitting in a locker that stepped down the marina 230v feed. That worked perfectly well. The good thing is, it's easy to convert back.
All of this presumes your inverter/charger can handle 50hz and your appliances don't mind 50hz. If the 50hz frequency change is an issue, use a separate battery charger.

[Mr B]

Originally Posted by SaltedEgg

I have no solar panels at the moment. I'm considering them for cruising but, like others said, hooking up an air con unit to the batteries isn't a great idea.

It sounds like your system converts DC to 240v AC. Is that correct? So your system is: solar panels -> charge controller -> batteries -> 240v inverter.
Are you able to hook up to shore power to charge your batteries? Do you run an ain con unit?

Thats correct, Its 240 volt, 50 HZ, 30 amp fuse between the controller and the battery,

No shore power,
I disconnected that as I get enough power from the panels, to charge the battery and run all my systems 24/7, 21 days at sea proved that,
I had 380 Watts in four panels, , but now have 500 Watts in two panels, ,

I am also doing away with my wind genny as I dont need it either,

You wont run an AC off batterys, Unless you have a massive battery bank,

I need to hook my RV up to house power to run my AC in it,
The batterys wont even turn it on, 400 Amphr batterys,

[Mr B]

FWIW,,
My Gemini 105 MC was made in the USA and all its wiring is 3 wire, 110 volts, they made 1200 of them all the same,
It dont have a battery charger or a transformer, It does have an 80 amp alternator on the deisel,

My 36 foot RV, Foretravel Grand Villa, Was made in the USA, they made 6000 of them, All with 3 wire, 110 volts,

[john61ct]

Well I can see OP getting confused.

Aircon should not be abbreviated AC when that is also used for shore power generally.

OP, yes the battery charger part is AC to DC. Sterling is a great brand, also Victron and others.

Inverter is back the other way. Victron makes combi units, charger + inverter in one.

If you have aircon, that can get its own circuit treated separately from the rest.

Otherwise for simplicity I believe my first post is the best approach, no worries about transformers nor 50 vs 60 Hz compatibility, can mix and match whatever appliances,, boat can travel anywhere in the future, etc.

But if you follow the "full conversion" approach, just pay professionals don't mess with it yourself.

[john61ct]

And aircon can run off a big inverter no problem, just need a soft start, and don't run it long off the battery bank, your power source (charger) needs to be running to keep the bank full long as the aircon is running.