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Old 07-01-2019, 22:14   #1
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200 amp Small Frame Brushless Alternator - Look OK?

I'm looking at a 200 amp, small frame, brushless alternator from an industrial supplier. I can't seem to add the PDF but here is the link:

http://all-tek.ca/brushless-alternators.html

They say I can run it continuously at 100 amps to recharge my 4 Firefly AGMs.

I'll need to add an external regulator because its internal 1 is set to 14.5 volts.

I can't see any downside but, given the low price, I'd appreciate input from the electrical gurus here.
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Old 08-01-2019, 04:31   #2
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Re: 200 amp Small Frame Brushless Alternator - Look OK?

Have you looked for any Q & A and Customer Reviews for the particular model?


https://www.amazon.com/BRUSHLESS-ALT.../dp/B01595IHTG
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Old 08-01-2019, 07:36   #3
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Re: 200 amp Small Frame Brushless Alternator - Look OK?

This one is large frame I believe, because it looks like the Delco SI28 and it has a J180 mount (about 4")

ALL-TEK JH-12180 12 volt 180 AMP BRUSHLESS ALTERNATOR

Focus appears to be the Oil Field, skid units, without batteries. The brushless are a response to an environment with fluids. They are a brand new design.
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Old 08-01-2019, 08:55   #4
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Re: 200 amp Small Frame Brushless Alternator - Look OK?

Quote:
Originally Posted by coopec43 View Post
Have you looked for any Q & A and Customer Reviews for the particular model?


https://www.amazon.com/BRUSHLESS-ALT.../dp/B01595IHTG
There are no reviews and nothing in Q&A.
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Old 08-01-2019, 09:01   #5
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Re: 200 amp Small Frame Brushless Alternator - Look OK?

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Originally Posted by rgleason View Post
This one is large frame I believe, because it looks like the Delco SI28 and it has a J180 mount (about 4")

ALL-TEK JH-12180 12 volt 180 AMP BRUSHLESS ALTERNATOR

Focus appears to be the Oil Field, skid units, without batteries. The brushless are a response to an environment with fluids. They are a brand new design.
I'm looking at the CH-12200. It is a small frame with single, dual or Cummins mount. I'd use the single spool and either have the alternator machined or, more likely, modify the engine mount.
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Old 08-01-2019, 20:03   #6
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Re: 200 amp Small Frame Brushless Alternator - Look OK?

Ofcouse you will need to consider serpentine pulleys to fit to your motor
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Old 09-01-2019, 10:31   #7
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Re: 200 amp Small Frame Brushless Alternator - Look OK?

I've already put on serpentine pulleys. I actually found a local machine shop to make crankshaft and water pump pulleys for way less than buying a kit.
This alternator is Canadian made so the price is really good compared to anything from the States.
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Old 11-01-2019, 01:18   #8
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Re: 200 amp Small Frame Brushless Alternator - Look OK?

It is hard to believe they could convert those rather standard small frame alternators to brushless. AFAIK brushless requires the addition of a small secondary alternator to create the field for the main alternator.
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Old 11-01-2019, 09:06   #9
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Re: 200 amp Small Frame Brushless Alternator - Look OK?

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It is hard to believe they could convert those rather standard small frame alternators to brushless. AFAIK brushless requires the addition of a small secondary alternator to create the field for the main alternator.

Not necessarily. How about a permanent magnet alternator? Common in small (5kw or less) wind generators. A BLDC or PMAC motor, turned by some mechanical force, is a permanent magnet three phase alternator.
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Old 11-01-2019, 11:24   #10
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Re: 200 amp Small Frame Brushless Alternator - Look OK?

Isn't it brushless design that lets you use it as a motor in one direction, then a generator in the other?

Is it the only design that does so?
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Old 11-01-2019, 12:04   #11
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Re: 200 amp Small Frame Brushless Alternator - Look OK?

Three phase turns in either direction as a motor. Just reverse any two leads. A permanent magnet alternator can be turned in either direction. Polarity is determined by the wiring of the rectifier. This is because an alternator's output is AC.


Practically any motor can be used as a generator or alternator with a bit of hardware hacking. Vice versa too, though it is a little more tricky and often requires commutation to take place within an electronic motor controller. That doesnt necessarily mean that the final result will be particularly efficient or that it will have a long service life.
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Old 11-01-2019, 13:18   #12
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Re: 200 amp Small Frame Brushless Alternator - Look OK?

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A BLDC or PMAC motor, turned by some mechanical force, is a permanent magnet three phase alternator.

Yes, pretty much equivalent to a standard brush alternator without a voltage regulator, full field. Not very practical. Any example you have in mind ?
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Old 11-01-2019, 13:41   #13
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Re: 200 amp Small Frame Brushless Alternator - Look OK?

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Yes, pretty much equivalent to a standard brush alternator without a voltage regulator, full field. Not very practical. Any example you have in mind ?

ME0913. ME0907. ME01014201. A bunch more. I think about 15 models from just that one brand. Currently, the ME0913 is what I have for propulsion in my Cal. With the proper controller I can get DC from it, 12v to 96v. Or without a controller, three phase AC to feed a rectifier and get the same ripply DC that your car alternator produces. The Motenergy motors actually are fairly efficient in regen mode. Inductance type motors, probably less so, I don't know. DC motors, depends on lead/lag of brushes/commutator. Brushless DC motor, or BLDC, is actually not a DC motor. As far as using an inductance motor to produce electricity, check youtube. I have never seen a need to do it that coincided with availability of a suitable motor.
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Old 11-01-2019, 16:25   #14
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Re: 200 amp Small Frame Brushless Alternator - Look OK?

other than use in place where explosive vapors exist..
what's the benefit to brush-less?

do brushes wear out that fast/often?
just wondering?


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Old 11-01-2019, 17:03   #15
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Re: 200 amp Small Frame Brushless Alternator - Look OK?

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other than use in place where explosive vapors exist..
what's the benefit to brush-less?

do brushes wear out that fast/often?
just wondering?


-dkenny64

I would guess that the typical 5kw brushed motor used for propulsion would under normal sailboat use patterns would require new brushes every 10 years or so. So not a big deal. They are not expensive and not so difficult to change. However, explosion potential must be considered. If you have any gasoline or propane on board you must use a brushless propulsion motor. No propane or gasoline? No worries. One benefit of going with a brushed propulsion motor is if your controller goes north on you, you can connect directly to your bank for emergency propulsion, maybe split the bank for lower voltage and lower speed. Can't do that with a brushless motor. Why I carry a spare controller. It is also easier to DIY a controller for a brushed DC motor. It is just a PWM power supply. Brushless motor controllers are much more complex. There is a huge market for SCRs and MOSFETs for DIY brushless controller designers and tinkerers. They blow up an owful lot of power transistors.
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