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Old 06-02-2016, 22:25   #1
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2 ground wires one terminal

I am wiring a Rule 750gph bilge pump. Wires are auto/manual and ground. I want to wire direct to a 12 v battery. I could splice the battery ground wire into the pump ground wire so that would have a single ground to attach to the terminal on the bilge pump switch or use a crimp that bites down into the bare wire using pliers. Just wondering if there is another connection method. ... thanks
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Old 07-02-2016, 01:00   #2
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Re: 2 ground wires one terminal

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Originally Posted by bcguy View Post
I am wiring a Rule 750gph bilge pump. Wires are auto/manual and ground. I want to wire direct to a 12 v battery. I could splice the battery ground wire into the pump ground wire so that would have a single ground to attach to the terminal on the bilge pump switch or use a crimp that bites down into the bare wire using pliers. Just wondering if there is another connection method. ... thanks

Do not use this style of crimp - it is almost the worse possible method

If you want to connect the ground wire directly to the battery, run the wire to the battery and crimp on a suitable ring terminal and bolt that to the battery negative post. More usually, one would terminate the ground wire on a negative bus bar.
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Old 07-02-2016, 10:14   #3
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Re: 2 ground wires one terminal

Thanks for the heads up on the crimp method. Just to clarify. I take a positive and negative wire from the 12v battery and attach these to the positive and negative terminals of the Rule, bilge pump switch. The bilge pump has 3 wires (auto, manual and ground). I attach the auto and manual wires to the (appropriate) remaining 2 terminals of the switch. This leaves the 3rd wire of the pump which is ground and nowhere for it to go as all the terminals of the pump now are wired. So, it is this wire that I would attach to a negative bus and not splice it into the ground wire coming from the battery (by splice I mean strip away a bit of the covering of the battery ground wire, soldering the bilge pump ground wire to it and then liquid tape over top of the splice)?
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Old 07-02-2016, 14:56   #4
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Re: 2 ground wires one terminal

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Originally Posted by bcguy View Post
Thanks for the heads up on the crimp method. Just to clarify. I take a positive and negative wire from the 12v battery and attach these to the positive and negative terminals of the Rule, bilge pump switch. The bilge pump has 3 wires (auto, manual and ground). I attach the auto and manual wires to the (appropriate) remaining 2 terminals of the switch. This leaves the 3rd wire of the pump which is ground and nowhere for it to go as all the terminals of the pump now are wired. So, it is this wire that I would attach to a negative bus and not splice it into the ground wire coming from the battery (by splice I mean strip away a bit of the covering of the battery ground wire, soldering the bilge pump ground wire to it and then liquid tape over top of the splice)?
Before making a call from the other side of the world, tell me how many terminals are on the switch - from your description, it sounds like 4 (+, -, manual, auto) and does it have an indicator (LED or lamp etc) built into the switch?

In essence, the ground wire of the pump must be connected somehow to the battery negative, either by splicing, or by a terminal on the battery post or on the negative bus bar; otherwise the pump won't operate.

If the switch has an indicator built in, the negative terminal on the switch is only there to allow the indicator to operate. At least that is how it is here .

I suggest you take the pump ground directly to either battery post or negative bus bar and connect the switch negative any way that suits you to the same point.
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Old 07-02-2016, 16:52   #5
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Re: 2 ground wires one terminal

Please don't forget to fuse the + side of the connection to the battery, and as close as possible to the battery.


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Old 07-02-2016, 16:56   #6
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Re: 2 ground wires one terminal

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Please don't forget to fuse the + side of the connection to the battery, and as close as possible to the battery.


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Old 07-02-2016, 22:25   #7
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Re: 2 ground wires one terminal

Do yourself a favor and buy a racheting crimp tool. They work way better than any pliers or the cheap stamped crimper stripper combo tools. Just make sure you know how to use it correctly and it will give you solid connections.

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Old 08-02-2016, 08:40   #8
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Re: 2 ground wires one terminal

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Originally Posted by mjrgr8pain View Post
Do yourself a favor and buy a racheting crimp tool. They work way better than any pliers or the cheap stamped crimper stripper combo tools. Just make sure you know how to use it correctly and it will give you solid connections.

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Agree with that 100%. But I would add - not just any ratcheting tool. The $20 POS from harbor freight for example makes a good fishing sinker. It will hurt your wallet to buy a real crimp tool, but your crimps will survive the pull (really hard) test. If you spend less than $120 on a thing to crimp with, I would re-do them with a better tool. The higher end ones will be a tool with interchangeable dies for various terminal types. I got one that does everything on the boat, including TNCs. It was around $200 I think.
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Old 08-02-2016, 09:06   #9
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Re: 2 ground wires one terminal

To me, your writing description seems confusing, but could well be me.

The manual wire connects to a switch on your helm or breaker panel that supplies 12v when switched on.

The auto wire connects to your battery + or an always connected +12v terminal strip. You can add the terminal strip where you were thinking of splicing direct wire to wire, mounting it in a dry protected location, assuming it's not a battery cable or supplying your circuit panel. There are fused terminal panels that make a nice clean installation.

The ground is of course to - on the battery or a ground terminal strip.

Install fuses or breakers where appropriate on the + leads.
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Old 08-02-2016, 09:10   #10
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Re: 2 ground wires one terminal

i bought an excellent crimping tool from Defender - they had a sale too, i think I paid less than $75 - and it came with hundreds of terminals. a single plastic box holds them all in little bins as well as the tool. I've used it a lot
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Old 08-02-2016, 09:49   #11
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Re: 2 ground wires one terminal

You are asking for some big problems by directly wiring ground to the battery. The only thing that should be directly wired is your emergency radio system. Otherwise you may create all sorts of electrical problems, some of which can sink your boat, if not fry your guests. Time for you to read up on boat wiring.
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Old 08-02-2016, 11:00   #12
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Re: 2 ground wires one terminal

Quote:
Originally Posted by bcguy View Post
I am wiring a Rule 750gph bilge pump. Wires are auto/manual and ground. I want to wire direct to a 12 v battery. I could splice the battery ground wire into the pump ground wire so that would have a single ground to attach to the terminal on the bilge pump switch or use a crimp that bites down into the bare wire using pliers. Just wondering if there is another connection method. ... thanks
First, I recommend you look at the instruction manual.

Rule 750 > Rule Electric Submersible Pumps > Xylem Flow Control - Let's Solve Water.

(Download the tech data sheet).

Second, I recommend you get someone who knows what they are doing to show you how to do this.

A bilge pump may have to work, to the best of it's ability, to save the boat and lives, so if you have to ask, you shouldn't be playing with it.

Normally, a bilge pump ON/OFF/AUTO switch is not connected to the battery negative at all (unless it has a light).

If there are only 3 connections on the switch, it most likely (without knowing specific model) should be as follows:

The FUSED (5 A for Rule 750) positive connection is wired to the POWER connection of the switch. The other switch connections go to each of the pump ON and AUTO connections.

The pump negative goes to the battery negative, or corresponding negative buss if there is one.

Notwithstanding, there is enough energy in your battery to easily burn the boat to the waterline if you mess this up. If in doubt (and you are) get help.

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Old 08-02-2016, 11:13   #13
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Re: 2 ground wires one terminal

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Originally Posted by reed1v View Post
You are asking for some big problems by directly wiring ground to the battery. The only thing that should be directly wired is your emergency radio system. Otherwise you may create all sorts of electrical problems, some of which can sink your boat, if not fry your guests. Time for you to read up on boat wiring.
Please explain.

IMHO there is no need to wire a bilge pump negative connection to anywhere other than the battery negative terminal, unless to do so would make more than 4 connections to the post which would not meet ABYC standards.

Depending on the boat electrical system, there may be many different "ground" busses tapped of the battery negative battery post, in which case, it may be possible and preferential to connect the bilge pump negative lead to the corresponding DC negative buss.

Notwithstanding, I am not aware of anything "dangerous" associated with connecting a bilge pump negative wire directly to a battery terminal (as long as all other wiring is correct).

I've installed a lot of bilge pumps, so if I've missed something, please advise.

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Old 08-02-2016, 12:04   #14
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Re: 2 ground wires one terminal

Attached is the basic principle. You can hang all kindsa bells and whistles on it, but do yourself a favour and keep it simple.

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Old 08-02-2016, 13:28   #15
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Re: 2 ground wires one terminal

The 3M "Scotchlok" clamps are a good example of guillotine (aka vampire) clamps. And they do work if used as intended, for specific wires sizes on solid, not stranded, wires. Boat wires should be stranded, so that's one problem. 3M also says not to use them where vibration may be an issue (i.e. on vehicles) since the "guillotine" is cutting into the solid wire, and as that guillotine edge vibrates, it continues to cut.
If the guillotine is made properly (soft enough) and the size are all matched up properly (probably not on the cheap stuff) they work very well, especially if you waterproof over them.


But for something critical like the wires on a bilge pump? Best to run the wires all the way up to someplace that is dry, and make a proper splice there. Or to a ground bus, whatever meets your definition or "proper".
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