Cruisers Forum
 


Reply
  This discussion is proudly sponsored by:
Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about their products on Cruisers Forums. Advertise Here
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 06-02-2016, 21:25   #1
Registered User
 
bcguy's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Wherever at anchor
Boat: Brent Swain Pilot House 36' Steel Sloop
Posts: 273
2 ground wires one terminal

I am wiring a Rule 750gph bilge pump. Wires are auto/manual and ground. I want to wire direct to a 12 v battery. I could splice the battery ground wire into the pump ground wire so that would have a single ground to attach to the terminal on the bilge pump switch or use a crimp that bites down into the bare wire using pliers. Just wondering if there is another connection method. ... thanks
bcguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-02-2016, 00:00   #2
Moderator and Certifiable Refitter
 
Wotname's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: South of 43 S, Australia
Boat: C.L.O.D.
Posts: 20,300
Re: 2 ground wires one terminal

Quote:
Originally Posted by bcguy View Post
I am wiring a Rule 750gph bilge pump. Wires are auto/manual and ground. I want to wire direct to a 12 v battery. I could splice the battery ground wire into the pump ground wire so that would have a single ground to attach to the terminal on the bilge pump switch or use a crimp that bites down into the bare wire using pliers. Just wondering if there is another connection method. ... thanks

Do not use this style of crimp - it is almost the worse possible method

If you want to connect the ground wire directly to the battery, run the wire to the battery and crimp on a suitable ring terminal and bolt that to the battery negative post. More usually, one would terminate the ground wire on a negative bus bar.
__________________
All men dream: but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find it was vanity: but the dreamers of the day are dangereous men, for they may act their dreams with open eyes, to make it possible. T.E. Lawrence
Wotname is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-02-2016, 09:14   #3
Registered User
 
bcguy's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Wherever at anchor
Boat: Brent Swain Pilot House 36' Steel Sloop
Posts: 273
Re: 2 ground wires one terminal

Thanks for the heads up on the crimp method. Just to clarify. I take a positive and negative wire from the 12v battery and attach these to the positive and negative terminals of the Rule, bilge pump switch. The bilge pump has 3 wires (auto, manual and ground). I attach the auto and manual wires to the (appropriate) remaining 2 terminals of the switch. This leaves the 3rd wire of the pump which is ground and nowhere for it to go as all the terminals of the pump now are wired. So, it is this wire that I would attach to a negative bus and not splice it into the ground wire coming from the battery (by splice I mean strip away a bit of the covering of the battery ground wire, soldering the bilge pump ground wire to it and then liquid tape over top of the splice)?
bcguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-02-2016, 13:56   #4
Moderator and Certifiable Refitter
 
Wotname's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: South of 43 S, Australia
Boat: C.L.O.D.
Posts: 20,300
Re: 2 ground wires one terminal

Quote:
Originally Posted by bcguy View Post
Thanks for the heads up on the crimp method. Just to clarify. I take a positive and negative wire from the 12v battery and attach these to the positive and negative terminals of the Rule, bilge pump switch. The bilge pump has 3 wires (auto, manual and ground). I attach the auto and manual wires to the (appropriate) remaining 2 terminals of the switch. This leaves the 3rd wire of the pump which is ground and nowhere for it to go as all the terminals of the pump now are wired. So, it is this wire that I would attach to a negative bus and not splice it into the ground wire coming from the battery (by splice I mean strip away a bit of the covering of the battery ground wire, soldering the bilge pump ground wire to it and then liquid tape over top of the splice)?
Before making a call from the other side of the world, tell me how many terminals are on the switch - from your description, it sounds like 4 (+, -, manual, auto) and does it have an indicator (LED or lamp etc) built into the switch?

In essence, the ground wire of the pump must be connected somehow to the battery negative, either by splicing, or by a terminal on the battery post or on the negative bus bar; otherwise the pump won't operate.

If the switch has an indicator built in, the negative terminal on the switch is only there to allow the indicator to operate. At least that is how it is here .

I suggest you take the pump ground directly to either battery post or negative bus bar and connect the switch negative any way that suits you to the same point.
__________________
All men dream: but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find it was vanity: but the dreamers of the day are dangereous men, for they may act their dreams with open eyes, to make it possible. T.E. Lawrence
Wotname is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-02-2016, 15:52   #5
Registered User
 
Boatyarddog's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Olympia, Washington
Boat: 1979 Mariner Ketch 32-Hull 202
Posts: 2,124
Images: 2
Re: 2 ground wires one terminal

Please don't forget to fuse the + side of the connection to the battery, and as close as possible to the battery.


Sent from SV Cloud Duster
Boatyarddog is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-02-2016, 15:56   #6
Moderator and Certifiable Refitter
 
Wotname's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: South of 43 S, Australia
Boat: C.L.O.D.
Posts: 20,300
Re: 2 ground wires one terminal

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boatyarddog View Post
Please don't forget to fuse the + side of the connection to the battery, and as close as possible to the battery.


Sent from SV Cloud Duster
__________________
All men dream: but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find it was vanity: but the dreamers of the day are dangereous men, for they may act their dreams with open eyes, to make it possible. T.E. Lawrence
Wotname is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-02-2016, 21:25   #7
Registered User

Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 5
Re: 2 ground wires one terminal

Do yourself a favor and buy a racheting crimp tool. They work way better than any pliers or the cheap stamped crimper stripper combo tools. Just make sure you know how to use it correctly and it will give you solid connections.

Sent from my SM-G900T using Tapatalk
mjrgr8pain is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-2016, 07:40   #8
Registered User
 
cabinboybob's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Boston
Boat: Tartan 4000 40'
Posts: 16
Re: 2 ground wires one terminal

Quote:
Originally Posted by mjrgr8pain View Post
Do yourself a favor and buy a racheting crimp tool. They work way better than any pliers or the cheap stamped crimper stripper combo tools. Just make sure you know how to use it correctly and it will give you solid connections.

Sent from my SM-G900T using Tapatalk
Agree with that 100%. But I would add - not just any ratcheting tool. The $20 POS from harbor freight for example makes a good fishing sinker. It will hurt your wallet to buy a real crimp tool, but your crimps will survive the pull (really hard) test. If you spend less than $120 on a thing to crimp with, I would re-do them with a better tool. The higher end ones will be a tool with interchangeable dies for various terminal types. I got one that does everything on the boat, including TNCs. It was around $200 I think.
__________________
Owned by a Tartan 4000
H tee tee pee argonsailing.com
H tee tee pee allhandssailing.com
cabinboybob is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-2016, 08:06   #9
Registered User

Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 262
Re: 2 ground wires one terminal

To me, your writing description seems confusing, but could well be me.

The manual wire connects to a switch on your helm or breaker panel that supplies 12v when switched on.

The auto wire connects to your battery + or an always connected +12v terminal strip. You can add the terminal strip where you were thinking of splicing direct wire to wire, mounting it in a dry protected location, assuming it's not a battery cable or supplying your circuit panel. There are fused terminal panels that make a nice clean installation.

The ground is of course to - on the battery or a ground terminal strip.

Install fuses or breakers where appropriate on the + leads.
SeaSon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-2016, 08:10   #10
Retired musician & 50T master
 
Symphony's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Ct
Boat: Pisces 21
Posts: 695
Re: 2 ground wires one terminal

i bought an excellent crimping tool from Defender - they had a sale too, i think I paid less than $75 - and it came with hundreds of terminals. a single plastic box holds them all in little bins as well as the tool. I've used it a lot
__________________
"In my experience travelers generally exaggerate the difficulties of the way." - Thoreau
Symphony is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-2016, 08:49   #11
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 2,150
Re: 2 ground wires one terminal

You are asking for some big problems by directly wiring ground to the battery. The only thing that should be directly wired is your emergency radio system. Otherwise you may create all sorts of electrical problems, some of which can sink your boat, if not fry your guests. Time for you to read up on boat wiring.
reed1v is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-2016, 10:00   #12
cruiser

Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Lake Ontario
Boat: Ontario 38 / Douglas 32 Mk II
Posts: 3,250
Re: 2 ground wires one terminal

Quote:
Originally Posted by bcguy View Post
I am wiring a Rule 750gph bilge pump. Wires are auto/manual and ground. I want to wire direct to a 12 v battery. I could splice the battery ground wire into the pump ground wire so that would have a single ground to attach to the terminal on the bilge pump switch or use a crimp that bites down into the bare wire using pliers. Just wondering if there is another connection method. ... thanks
First, I recommend you look at the instruction manual.

Rule 750 > Rule Electric Submersible Pumps > Xylem Flow Control - Let's Solve Water.

(Download the tech data sheet).

Second, I recommend you get someone who knows what they are doing to show you how to do this.

A bilge pump may have to work, to the best of it's ability, to save the boat and lives, so if you have to ask, you shouldn't be playing with it.

Normally, a bilge pump ON/OFF/AUTO switch is not connected to the battery negative at all (unless it has a light).

If there are only 3 connections on the switch, it most likely (without knowing specific model) should be as follows:

The FUSED (5 A for Rule 750) positive connection is wired to the POWER connection of the switch. The other switch connections go to each of the pump ON and AUTO connections.

The pump negative goes to the battery negative, or corresponding negative buss if there is one.

Notwithstanding, there is enough energy in your battery to easily burn the boat to the waterline if you mess this up. If in doubt (and you are) get help.

Ramblin Rod
Marine Service Provider
About Sheen Marine
ramblinrod is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-2016, 10:13   #13
cruiser

Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Lake Ontario
Boat: Ontario 38 / Douglas 32 Mk II
Posts: 3,250
Re: 2 ground wires one terminal

Quote:
Originally Posted by reed1v View Post
You are asking for some big problems by directly wiring ground to the battery. The only thing that should be directly wired is your emergency radio system. Otherwise you may create all sorts of electrical problems, some of which can sink your boat, if not fry your guests. Time for you to read up on boat wiring.
Please explain.

IMHO there is no need to wire a bilge pump negative connection to anywhere other than the battery negative terminal, unless to do so would make more than 4 connections to the post which would not meet ABYC standards.

Depending on the boat electrical system, there may be many different "ground" busses tapped of the battery negative battery post, in which case, it may be possible and preferential to connect the bilge pump negative lead to the corresponding DC negative buss.

Notwithstanding, I am not aware of anything "dangerous" associated with connecting a bilge pump negative wire directly to a battery terminal (as long as all other wiring is correct).

I've installed a lot of bilge pumps, so if I've missed something, please advise.

Ramblin Rod
Marine Service Provider
About Sheen Marine
ramblinrod is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-2016, 11:04   #14
Moderator

Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 6,190
Re: 2 ground wires one terminal

Attached is the basic principle. You can hang all kindsa bells and whistles on it, but do yourself a favour and keep it simple.

TrentePiedsClick image for larger version

Name:	bilge pump wiring.jpg
Views:	278
Size:	207.5 KB
ID:	118612
TrentePieds is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-2016, 12:28   #15
֍֎֍֎֍֎֍֎֍֎

Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 15,136
Re: 2 ground wires one terminal

The 3M "Scotchlok" clamps are a good example of guillotine (aka vampire) clamps. And they do work if used as intended, for specific wires sizes on solid, not stranded, wires. Boat wires should be stranded, so that's one problem. 3M also says not to use them where vibration may be an issue (i.e. on vehicles) since the "guillotine" is cutting into the solid wire, and as that guillotine edge vibrates, it continues to cut.
If the guillotine is made properly (soft enough) and the size are all matched up properly (probably not on the cheap stuff) they work very well, especially if you waterproof over them.


But for something critical like the wires on a bilge pump? Best to run the wires all the way up to someplace that is dry, and make a proper splice there. Or to a ground bus, whatever meets your definition or "proper".
hellosailor is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Burnt terminal on 30 amp power cord Dream Maker Electrical: Batteries, Generators & Solar 36 31-07-2017 19:29
To ground or not to ground an aluminum arch...that is my question. chrtucke Electrical: Batteries, Generators & Solar 9 06-10-2014 23:17
Crew Available: India to east, One woman, one set of wheels, one world ruby1984 Crew Archives 4 14-03-2014 03:43
Two wires to a single ring terminal? SeaSloth Electrical: Batteries, Generators & Solar 11 17-11-2013 07:04
Norseman Swageless Terminal To Terminal Insulators GWB Classifieds Archive 0 21-09-2008 12:47

Advertise Here


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 02:52.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.