Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 29-01-2011, 14:29   #1
Registered User
 
svstrider's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: back on Gold Coast after sailing north to Thailand then east to Pacific via Irian Jaya, PNG & Solomons
Boat: Tennant 47ft Catamaran
Posts: 310
1500w Inverter Won't Start Dremel Tool

I bought a new Dremel 400 series 240 V tool 400 Series Digital Rotary Tool / Model: 400 Series Digital but my Xantrex 1500 watt Dr 1512 inverter won't run it. I thought that I must have a dud (Why me, Lord) and went back to the retailer, Bunnings to complain.

I was nice and polite as I did not want to rant about my wasted time only to find that there is some other on / off switch I had not seen and look like a complete idiot (has been known to happen )

The lady at the service desk pleasantly smiled when it ran like a beauty. I then took it to a mate's boat and of course it ran off his inverter. I was figuring that it must not draw enough power to start my inverter but my mobile phone charger runs off OK & I figure it draws a lot less power than the Dremel.

It also would not run even if the inverter was powered up running some other 240V appliance. I am working overseas but checked the manual for the Xantrex on line. It does indeed have a potentiometer to adjust the start up sensitivity between 5 to over 100Watts. I cannot check the setting on my inverter but as this tool draws 140 W at 230 V, I don't understand why it won't work. It will run off the generator but not the inverter.

As the Admiral was pissed off that I went to the hardware store for paint and returned with a Dremel tool as well and now it won't work without hauling out the generator, I am DESPERATE for a fix.

ANY IDEAS
__________________

__________________
Paul & Kaspar de Wonda Dog
S/V "Pelican V"
"Trust not a living soul and step warily around the dead"
svstrider is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-01-2011, 14:42   #2
Registered User
 
Aussiesuede's Avatar

Join Date: May 2008
Location: Vancouver, BC & Seattle, WA
Posts: 641
Just to eliminate the obvious, your inverter is the 230V version and not the 120V version?
__________________

__________________
I'm On point, On task, On message, and Off drugs. A Streetwise Smart Bomb, Out of rehab and In denial. Over the Top, On the edge, Under the Radar, and In Control. Behind the 8 ball, Ahead of the Curve and I've got a Love Child who sends me Hate mail. - (George Carlin)
Aussiesuede is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-01-2011, 14:49   #3
Registered User
 
svstrider's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: back on Gold Coast after sailing north to Thailand then east to Pacific via Irian Jaya, PNG & Solomons
Boat: Tennant 47ft Catamaran
Posts: 310
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aussiesuede View Post
Just to eliminate the obvious, your inverter is the 230V version and not the 120V version?
Yep - 230Volt.
__________________
Paul & Kaspar de Wonda Dog
S/V "Pelican V"
"Trust not a living soul and step warily around the dead"
svstrider is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-01-2011, 15:04   #4
Senior Cruiser
 
atoll's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: gettin naughty on the beach in cornwall
Boat: 63 custom alloy sloop,macwester26,prout snowgoose 37 elite catamaran!
Posts: 9,311
Images: 75
cheaper square wave inverters dont like nicad chargers or vice versa.
need a sine wave inverter to charge up the dremel
__________________
my catamaran building project updates http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...36#post2502136
atoll is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-01-2011, 15:11   #5
Registered User
 
svstrider's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: back on Gold Coast after sailing north to Thailand then east to Pacific via Irian Jaya, PNG & Solomons
Boat: Tennant 47ft Catamaran
Posts: 310
Quote:
Originally Posted by atoll View Post
cheaper square wave inverters dont like nicad chargers or vice versa.
need a sine wave inverter to charge up the dremel
I don't think you understand - I am not charging it. The Dremel runs off 240V. The charger is not square wave but modified sine wave but I guess it might be upset by "modified". Good thought.

Any one else run their Dremels off modified sine wave inverters??
__________________
Paul & Kaspar de Wonda Dog
S/V "Pelican V"
"Trust not a living soul and step warily around the dead"
svstrider is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-01-2011, 15:17   #6
Registered User
 
S/V Alchemy's Avatar

Join Date: May 2008
Location: Toronto
Boat: Custom 41' Steel Pilothouse Cutter
Posts: 4,576
I would have thought that the Dremel would prefer it. AC-DC chargers, like running a laptop from a square wave inverter, don't seem to like them much, and their displays show it.

Is the Dremel completely dead, or does it "hum" or turn very slowly? Do other appliances or tools work out of the inverter? Do you have sufficient battery bank voltage? All questions I would ask, now that you've proved it isn't the Dremel.
__________________
S/V Alchemy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-01-2011, 15:27   #7
Senior Cruiser
 
atoll's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: gettin naughty on the beach in cornwall
Boat: 63 custom alloy sloop,macwester26,prout snowgoose 37 elite catamaran!
Posts: 9,311
Images: 75
yes possably both,my dremel has the built in battery,recharger.

may be not getting the correct shunt to start it from the capacitor from mod sine inverter
__________________
my catamaran building project updates http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...36#post2502136
atoll is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-01-2011, 16:46   #8
Registered User
 
svstrider's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: back on Gold Coast after sailing north to Thailand then east to Pacific via Irian Jaya, PNG & Solomons
Boat: Tennant 47ft Catamaran
Posts: 310
Quote:
Originally Posted by S/V Alchemy View Post
I would have thought that the Dremel would prefer it. AC-DC chargers, like running a laptop from a square wave inverter, don't seem to like them much, and their displays show it.

Is the Dremel completely dead, or does it "hum" or turn very slowly? Do other appliances or tools work out of the inverter? Do you have sufficient battery bank voltage? All questions I would ask, now that you've proved it isn't the Dremel.
When you plug the dremel in, NOTHING happens. No noise. Nothing even appears on its LED screen where you can adjust the rpm's.

No battery bank is fine, two years old - 900 amp/hrs AGM's had full charge. The inverter runs two laptops, phone chargers, jig saw, circular saw, large 240V drill, Admiral's depillator, various sex toys (best not go there) etc etc.
All without a problem.

Everything runs OK. Don't have a TV, the admiral won't let me
__________________
Paul & Kaspar de Wonda Dog
S/V "Pelican V"
"Trust not a living soul and step warily around the dead"
svstrider is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-01-2011, 16:52   #9
Registered User
 
capn_billl's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Houston,Tx
Boat: Maxum 37'
Posts: 1,587
Most motor driven tools don't like modified sine wave. A modified sine wave is basically a filtered square wave. I found numerous devices that would either not work at all or work only poorly with modified sine wave. Eventually I tossed it and bought a pure sine wave. Now everything works except a few large motor driven appliances with large starting currents.
__________________
capn_billl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-01-2011, 16:56   #10
Registered User
 
capn_billl's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Houston,Tx
Boat: Maxum 37'
Posts: 1,587
OOH OOH I know. I just relised after reading the above post about the led RPM adjust. This dremal has a variable RPM doesn't it. Variable AC motors use a "dimmer" style RPM adjust. It works by turning on a SCR at an adjustable voltage up the side of a singe phase of the incoming sine wave. Ergo on a square wave there is no sloped side only on or off. The edge of the square wave is too short of a period of time to run the motor. It may turn on on max speed only, but never on a mid range.
__________________
capn_billl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-01-2011, 17:06   #11
Senior Cruiser
 
atoll's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: gettin naughty on the beach in cornwall
Boat: 63 custom alloy sloop,macwester26,prout snowgoose 37 elite catamaran!
Posts: 9,311
Images: 75
my thoughts as well but very well put capn bill .
think you may have hit the button on the head thanks for in put
__________________
my catamaran building project updates http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...36#post2502136
atoll is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-01-2011, 17:18   #12
Registered User
 
svstrider's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: back on Gold Coast after sailing north to Thailand then east to Pacific via Irian Jaya, PNG & Solomons
Boat: Tennant 47ft Catamaran
Posts: 310
Quote:
Originally Posted by capn_billl View Post
OOH OOH I know. I just relised after reading the above post about the led RPM adjust. This dremal has a variable RPM doesn't it. Variable AC motors use a "dimmer" style RPM adjust. It works by turning on a SCR at an adjustable voltage up the side of a singe phase of the incoming sine wave. Ergo on a square wave there is no sloped side only on or off. The edge of the square wave is too short of a period of time to run the motor. It may turn on on max speed only, but never on a mid range.
WOT HE SAID Now why didn't I think of that. Thanks Brains' Trust for shining light on the problem. I will try and turn it on at max revs setting, in the interests of science. However, have to get it turned on. Pull out the generator AGAIN.

Now all I have to do is go out to buy some milk and return with a pure sine wave inverter
The Admiral WILL BE SO PLEASED.
__________________
Paul & Kaspar de Wonda Dog
S/V "Pelican V"
"Trust not a living soul and step warily around the dead"
svstrider is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-01-2011, 18:37   #13
Registered User
 
capn_billl's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Houston,Tx
Boat: Maxum 37'
Posts: 1,587
"I'm going out to buy some milk". YES, I'll have to try that one. I think there is a West Marine next to the milk store.
__________________
capn_billl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-01-2011, 19:16   #14
Senior Cruiser
 
atoll's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: gettin naughty on the beach in cornwall
Boat: 63 custom alloy sloop,macwester26,prout snowgoose 37 elite catamaran!
Posts: 9,311
Images: 75
comment from owner of yacht i delivered recently,
" going shopping with you is worse than going shopping with my wife"
__________________
my catamaran building project updates http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...36#post2502136
atoll is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30-01-2011, 07:14   #15
Registered User
 
Krakato's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2009
Boat: 1998 PDQ 36 Capella Classic
Posts: 69
Speaking as someone who has built variable frequency inverters in the past, I vote for the sine wave issue. Read the fine print on any inverters and check their output waveform, pay the extra money for a good sine wave output. Most everything that plugs into AC expects to see a sine wave. Some are more tolerant than others with respect to what the wave looks like, some are not (especially variable speed motors).

You should see some of the "sine" waves that came out of my inverters, especially my early attempts, not to mention the "sounds" that came out of the motors I plugged into them!

Cheers,
Mike
__________________

__________________
Krakato is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
inverter

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Is There Such a Tool ? shawnkillam Construction, Maintenance & Refit 15 28-12-2010 13:27
Let's See Your Boat's Workbench, Tool Shed, Tool Box . . . Ocean Roads Construction, Maintenance & Refit 46 12-10-2010 17:22
Calculating Amps Drawn Before Inverter and After Inverter ? impi Electrical: Batteries, Generators & Solar 23 26-09-2010 23:24
Dremel Guide? Connemara Construction, Maintenance & Refit 4 29-01-2010 09:39



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 20:45.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.