Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 27-11-2008, 17:03   #1
Registered User

Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Southbound
Boat: Pearson 31-2
Posts: 303
12v plugs and outlets

I have several dc items to plug in and don't want to have a whole bunch of lighter type sockets (bad design from inception) cluttering up the boat. Instead I want to run a line to a outlet box and have 4 outlets avail to plug in non lighter type plugs.

Do they make a plug/outlet for this?

I suppose I could just use regular 120v outlets but to avoid confusion, I'd like it different. Is there anything wrong with using a different plug like rca, bnc or coax 'f' connector? All of the lighter type cords I have seen are made with very small wire so it seems like almost any good 2 conductor connector would work. I chose the three above because I can easily fit all four outlets in a small space.
__________________

__________________
Aquah0lic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-11-2008, 18:24   #2
CF Adviser
 
Pelagic's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2007
Boat: Van Helleman Schooner 65ft StarGazer
Posts: 6,895
Not an expert but I think my key concern would be the amp rating for the plug and connecter.

If you used a “stereo” rated type connecter would their insulation handle the 12v, 15amp standard for a DIN connector?

These guys show a group DIN panel that might be what you want

12-Volt Plugs, Sockets And Connectors
__________________

__________________
Pelagic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-11-2008, 19:57   #3
Registered User

Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Southbound
Boat: Pearson 31-2
Posts: 303
Thanks for the link Pelagic but I checked the site and they seem to have mostly just DIN (lighter plug) type connectors, which I'd like to avoid if possible.

As for the connectors ability to handle the load, I can speak from experience on only the coax cable. Cable is my business and I have seen old RG-6 temporary lines long forgotten that were carrying 90 volts for several hundred feet to power main amplifiers. I'm unsure about the exact amperage, but I can verify that its enough to knock a 180 lb guy squarely on his a$$.

Another example, I came across a guy one day up in a bucket truck using a 1/2" hammer drill using the RG-6 as an extension cord. He said his cord got cut one day and he had to makeshift it and later decided if it works, why not keep it that way as there is no shortage of cable on a cable truck incase he cut it again.
__________________
Aquah0lic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-11-2008, 20:00   #4
Marine Service Provider
 
AnchorageGuy's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Wherever the boat is!
Boat: Marine Trader 34DC
Posts: 4,618
What would you possibly be using on your boat that carries that much voltages and amperage?
__________________
Chesapeake Bay, ICW Hampton Roads To Key West, The Gulf Coast, The Bahamas

The Trawler Beach House
Voyages Of Sea Trek
AnchorageGuy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-11-2008, 20:22   #5
Registered User

Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Southbound
Boat: Pearson 31-2
Posts: 303
Nothing really but other factors steer me away from RG-6 like its stiffness which prevents clean looking wiring (look behind your entertainment center). Also cutting a din plug off a wire and modifying it to accept an f connector will be very time consuming and tedious custom job to do right.

On another note, my generator has a 12v outlet with angled tabs like this / \ . I have searched around and can't seem to find the plugs or even those same outlets anywhere. Does anyone know a source for these?
__________________
Aquah0lic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-11-2008, 05:03   #6
Moderator Emeritus
 
GordMay's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Thunder Bay, Ontario - 48-29N x 89-20W
Boat: (Cruiser Living On Dirt)
Posts: 31,586
Images: 240
At about $15/each (Plug & Receptacle) MIDGET LOCKING DEVICES ('ML1') are an expensive, but EXCELLENT solution to the 12VDC Plug & Receptacle problem.

I installed several Midget Locking Receptacles (white nylon), and converted all my DC equipment cords to Midget Locking Plugs. Additionally, I fabricated a Lighter Socket Receptacle to Locking Plug adapter cord. I used WP rubber covers on those outlets installed in cockpit & companionway.
The Receptacle is only about 1-5/8" O/all dia. x 1-13/16" deep.

15A 125V 2 pole 2 Wire (Non-Grounding) Midget Locking Devices
(NEMA Configuration “ML1")


Male Plug (ML1-P):
Hubbell/Kellems #HBL7545C, Leviton #ML1-P etc
Receptacle - Outlet (ML1-R): Hubbell/Kellems #HBL7526C , Leviton #ML1-PER etc

Goto:
http://www.hubbellcatalog.com/wiring.../section-b.pdf
http://assets.twacomm.com/assets/pdf/22657.pdf
Attached Images
  
__________________
Gord May
"If you didn't have the time or money to do it right in the first place, when will you get the time/$ to fix it?"



GordMay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-11-2008, 05:41   #7
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 4,413
The problem with using their odd plugs and receptacles is that thrid oarty devices typically come with cig lighter type plugs for 12 use - cell phone charges come to mind.

So then you have to adapt the plug end of all these devices.

My cig plugs and receptacles are from Marinco (12V Plug & Receptacle | Marinco) and are very well engineered and attactive as well (alternative mouting options). The plugs have a FUSE in them which protects the wire and the device and the cover keeps water outand fingers safe.

Since I use some of the third party devices in the cockpit (Garmin Ique) AND in the car, AND down below, the cig lighter by Marinco is the best approach.

On the other hand for my solar panels I used twist lock because the wire diameter was too large for the cig plgs. I do remove them in winter and so forth.
__________________
Sandero is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-11-2008, 06:06   #8
Moderator Emeritus
 
GordMay's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Thunder Bay, Ontario - 48-29N x 89-20W
Boat: (Cruiser Living On Dirt)
Posts: 31,586
Images: 240
Yes cigarette lighter plugs are ubiquitous, and conversion to Midget Locking Plugs gets very expensive as the number of portable 12VDC devices multiplies.

Nonetheless, the Midget Locking Devices are much better than even the very best Cig’ Lighter assemblies.

The Marinco "SeaLink” receptacle is about the same cost as the Midget Locking Receptacle; but of course you needn’t change out the portable equipment plugs (if you’re willing to accept the inferior quality of the OEM plugs); thus saving considerable expense. BTW: The Marinco is about the best (of a bad design concept) cigarette lighter receptacle.

In addition to the personal; satisfaction and utility “in use”, I had the added motivation (to install the “best”) of using my boat as something of a professional “demonstrator” (I was a marine electrician).

The Cig’ Lighter to Midget Locking adaptor was used for visitors’ equipment, and those devices that weren’t worth converting. Additionally I left the PO’s existing cig’ lighter receptacle installed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by defjef View Post
... Since I use some of the third party devices in the cockpit (Garmin Ique) AND in the car, AND down below, the cig lighter by Marinco is the best approach...
As noted above, it’s my opinion that the Marinco “SeaLink” Cig’ Lighter devices are merely the best of a bad lot, and Midget Locking Devices are the very best solution I’ve found to portable 12VDC power. Of course, not everyone needs or wants the very best for the mundane uses typical of 12V receptacles; and for those, the Marinco product is an adequate (tho' not cheap) solution.
__________________
Gord May
"If you didn't have the time or money to do it right in the first place, when will you get the time/$ to fix it?"



GordMay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-11-2008, 06:32   #9
Sponsoring Vendor
 
Tellie's Avatar

Community Sponsor

Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Hollywood, Fl.
Boat: FP Athena 38' Poerava
Posts: 3,046
Another example, I came across a guy one day up in a bucket truck using a 1/2" hammer drill using the RG-6 as an extension cord. He said his cord got cut one day and he had to makeshift it and later decided if it works, why not keep it that way as there is no shortage of cable on a cable truck incase he cut it again.


I can think of several reasons, firstly that Oh so important missing third wire called the ground, Guess who becomes the ground when this rig fails as is highly likely and it won't be the wonderful voltage carring capabilities of RG-6 but it's amp delivery potential. Secondly, RG-6 (Radio Guide) wire center connductor is 18 guage, way too small for a 1/2" Hammer drill. Not to mention the resistance differences between a solid conductor and a wire woven as a signal shield. Do your buddy a favor and get him the right extension cord, you'll probably save his life.
Tellie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-11-2008, 07:43   #10
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 4,413
Gord wrote:

"but of course you needn’t change out the portable equipment plugs (if you’re willing to accept the inferior quality of the OEM plugs); thus saving considerable expense."

Are you unaware of the some the factory 12 cig plugs? Have you looked at the wire size in some of these devices?

Using my Garmin IQue as an example, the OWM plug is well made and changing it to any other plug would be foolish. The wire sleeve (outer casing) mates perfectly with the plug and is held secure enough to pull the plug by pulling the cable. Though this is not advised, I doubt whether mini plug can clamp the many of cables (varying diameters) as well as. The same OEM quality is seen in most of the 12v portable devices I use. I don't what planet you are on Mr. Gord., but I on mine factory made up plugs are far superior to most of the after market hobbyist ones.

12v cig plugs, perhaps not the best inherent design are certainly workable for almost all portable 12 devices and changing to a "bastard system" system is not only expensive and time consuming, but accomplishes little for MOST portable devices.

I'd like to know which portable devices are you proposing be "re plugged"?
__________________
Sandero is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-11-2008, 08:30   #11
Moderator Emeritus
 
GordMay's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Thunder Bay, Ontario - 48-29N x 89-20W
Boat: (Cruiser Living On Dirt)
Posts: 31,586
Images: 240
I agree, and have no argument with defjef's essential argument.
It's all a matter of degree.

On my boat, I re-plugged 12V Portable:
(1) GPS (Power Supply Cord)
(2) Handheld Spotlights
(1) Battery Drill (Home Made Power Supply Cord - Used Old Batt Pac)
(1) Battery Charger (Batt Drill)
(1) Florescent Trouble Light
(1) Sump Pump
(2) Vacuum Cleaners (1 Handheld + 1 2.5 Gal Wet-Vac)
(1) Air Compressor (Small)
(1) Oil/Fuel Pump
sundry other stuff...

As an electrical wholesale distributer my costs were about Ĺ of retail - and still considerable!
__________________
Gord May
"If you didn't have the time or money to do it right in the first place, when will you get the time/$ to fix it?"



GordMay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-11-2008, 08:36   #12
Senior Cruiser
 
JusDreaming's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Stuart, FL & Bahamas Cruising
Boat: Lagoon 37
Posts: 880
Images: 13
I was perusing the Leviton catalog, and did not see any water resistant caps? What did you use for caps
__________________
Denny and Diane
Lagoon 37
http://www.svjusdreaming.bravehost.com/
http://www.sailblogs.com/member/svjusdreaming/
"The only way to get a good crew is to marry one." -Eric Hiscock
JusDreaming is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-11-2008, 08:43   #13
Moderator Emeritus
 
GordMay's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Thunder Bay, Ontario - 48-29N x 89-20W
Boat: (Cruiser Living On Dirt)
Posts: 31,586
Images: 240
Hubbel, Bryant, Kellems offer outlet caps, and plug boots.
__________________
Gord May
"If you didn't have the time or money to do it right in the first place, when will you get the time/$ to fix it?"



GordMay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-11-2008, 09:02   #14
Registered User
 
Christian Van H's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Princeton, NJ
Boat: Challenger Anacapa 42
Posts: 2,097
Images: 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aquah0lic View Post
I suppose I could just use regular 120v outlets but to avoid confusion, I'd like it different.
Naw, Aqua, what you are avoiding is a boat fire. Someone other than you is gonna plug something 120vac into one of those one day and bad things could happen. As for your original question, which is something that DefJef cant seem to grasp, Gord has found a novel solution. If ya want to use a different 12v plug and socket, Gord's will work just fine. It's pretty obvious, since he's DONE it and LIVES with it daily. There's probably 40 more types you could use in the Digikey catalog alone. Whatever ya choose, leave a couple lighter sockets on the boat, or make up some adapters. Like Gord said, some stuff wont be worth converting.
__________________
www.anacapas.com

Here's to swimmin' with bowlegged women!
Christian Van H is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-11-2008, 09:02   #15
Moderator Emeritus
 
David M's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: San Francisco Bay
Boat: research vessel
Posts: 10,152
Make up some adapters so you can have midget outlets in your bulkheads and still use the male cigarette lighter connectors on 12 volt devices.
__________________

__________________
David

Life begins where land ends.
David M is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
How to remove plugs from manifold? Trekka Engines and Propulsion Systems 12 01-12-2008 09:54
12v outlets and fans Jack Long Electrical: Batteries, Generators & Solar 12 18-09-2008 19:32
Inverters and plugs Jack Long Electrical: Batteries, Generators & Solar 3 07-06-2008 11:43
12 Volt plugs gosstyla Electrical: Batteries, Generators & Solar 6 13-04-2007 10:37
12V DC Receptacles (Outlets) GordMay Electrical: Batteries, Generators & Solar 9 12-01-2004 11:50



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 14:35.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.