120volt Panda Generator Problems

[deckofficer]

Then there is the 21st century answer, 176 lb 36 hp diesels. Don't you ever wonder why nobody turbocharges a small diesel? They just keep pushing 70 year old engine designs on us and maximizing their profit from never retooling. For the cat sailors out there, weight is the enemy, and now someone is addressing the market with small turbo diesels.

What is a start up today will be mainstream tomorrow.

http://www.steyr-motors.com/fileadmi...linder_web.pdf

[bobconnie]

You guys think your so called modern gen sets give ya problems, try working with a Lister 1 cyl gen set when ya have 10 or 12 ton of tuna aboard and 6 days to a delivery dock !! then ya have a problem !! gee my air cond wont work !! LOL really guys things are better !!!!! the gen sets of today are worlds better then what was out there even 15 yrs ago!! so just bite the bullet and get the Northern Lites and enjoy your comfort !! Just my 2 cents Bob and Connie

[Highland Fling]

Originally Posted by Lancerbye

I guess I have to go against the general consensus also. I have a Panda 12 that produces a constant 10KW. This was however a unit that was marinized from an industrial application. It is fresh water cooled and is used a lot. The only problems I have had which was easily repaired was the water pump">raw water pump which was a retrofit. Slamming a make of a product is never a good idea. Not all models of any manufacture's products are the same. This one has a 3 cyl. Kabuta as an engine. If the same approach was used for boat engines all makes would probably be suspect.

the BIG FP problem/issue seems to be the lack of any real support and when anything goes wrong the std reply appears to be SORRY its your problem you did not do.......................................X,Y,Z

[Highland Fling]

Originally Posted by deckofficer

Then there is the 21st century answer, 176 lb 36 hp diesels. Don't you ever wonder why nobody turbocharges a small diesel? They just keep pushing 70 year old engine designs on us and maximizing their profit from never retooling. For the cat sailors out there, weight is the enemy, and now someone is addressing the market with small turbo diesels.

What is a start up today will be mainstream tomorrow.

http://www.steyr-motors.com/fileadmi...linder_web.pdf

not a big fan of turbocharging 'small' marine diesels for the pleasure sailor I think a properly designed supercharged engine would be a much better way to go

[deckofficer]

Originally Posted by Highland Fling

not a big fan of turbocharging 'small' marine diesels for the pleasure sailor I think a properly designed supercharged engine would be a much better way to go

But superchargers are used on 2 stroke diesels as a means of savaging the combustion area for the next charge of air, not as a means of adding boost, thus allowing for more fuel and hp output. Plus, what better way to put wasted heat energy to used than to power a turbine that shares a common shaft with a centrifugal compressor.

Also for marine use, you have an unlimited heat sink as a cooling medium for removing heat from the compressed air charge, thus making it more dense, and again being able to add even more fuel to a denser, cooler air charge. IMHO, the turbo diesel with intercooler and marine use is a perfect marriage.

[Highland Fling]

Originally Posted by deckofficer

But superchargers are used on 2 stroke diesels as a means of savaging the combustion area for the next charge of air, not as a means of adding boost, thus allowing for more fuel and hp output. Plus, what better way to put wasted heat energy to used than to power a turbine that shares a common shaft with a centrifugal compressor.

Also for marine use, you have an unlimited heat sink as a cooling medium for removing heat from the compressed air charge, thus making it more dense, and again being able to add even more fuel to a denser, cooler air charge. IMHO, the turbo diesel with intercooler and marine use is a perfect marriage.

If it was a perfect marriage then why do we have so many problems with coke'd turbos stuck waste gates and W/O U/S turbo bearings???

[deckofficer]

Waste gate not used on a stationary diesel, as to coked bearings, more of an end user issue, whereas the engine was run hard then shut down. Heat soak will cook the oil at the bearings if not run at a light to zero load for a couple of minutes before shutdown.

I meant to say scavenging, as in clearing out the combustion chamber, not savaging.

[Highland Fling]

Originally Posted by deckofficer

Waste gate not used on a stationary diesel, as to coked bearings, more of an end user issue, whereas the engine was run hard then shut down. Heat soak will cook the oil at the bearings if not run at a light to zero load for a couple of minutes before shutdown.

I meant to say scavenging, as in clearing out the combustion chamber, not savaging.

The Volvo TD's have a waste gate and i agree it is user mismanagement that cooks the bearings and coke's the turbo blades. All in all i still dont think a TD is a good solution for your average pleasure boater who might only run his engine for say 30/40 mins leaving and arriving at an anchorage and who really wants a turn key solution and is not highly motivated to operate his TD 'properly' to minimise Turbo issues. Fully understood/understand your typo and the operation of 2 stroke TD engines

[deckofficer]

Warning~Thread drift.

You would never believe how we removed carbon buildup from the turbine's blades on our 60,000 hp low speed diesels. Crushed walnut shells dropped into the spinning turbine would dislodge the carbon, and both shells and carbon blew right out the stack. The diesel engine version of blowing the tubes on a boiler. The first ship I sailed was a compound turbine/boiler from the 40's.

[Highland Fling]

Originally Posted by deckofficer

Warning~Thread drift.

You would never believe how we removed carbon buildup from the turbine's blades on our 60,000 hp low speed diesels. Crushed walnut shells dropped into the spinning turbine would dislodge the carbon, and both shells and carbon blew right out the stack. The diesel engine version of blowing the tubes on a boiler. The first ship I sailed was a compound turbine/boiler from the 40's.

Well i know the Dashew's used them as a non slip..................but that is another 'green use for them

[Blue Stocking]

Originally Posted by deckofficer

Warning~Thread drift.

You would never believe how we removed carbon buildup from the turbine's blades on our 60,000 hp low speed diesels. Crushed walnut shells dropped into the spinning turbine would dislodge the carbon, and both shells and carbon blew right out the stack. The diesel engine version of blowing the tubes on a boiler. The first ship I sailed was a compound turbine/boiler from the 40's.

The Brown-Boveri turbines in our power plant were cleaned the same way.

[John Duckworth]

I am also in the market for a new generator, but will not conside a Fischer panda because firstly their site will not tell me what they cost, so I assume they have something to hide (ie expensive), and secondly because of the host of negitive comments about both reliabliity and support both here and on other sites.
I don't understand their logic.
John

[downunder]

Originally Posted by John Duckworth

I am also in the market for a new generator, but will not conside a Fischer panda because firstly their site will not tell me what they cost, so I assume they have something to hide (ie expensive), and secondly because of the host of negitive comments about both reliabliity and support both here and on other sites.
I don't understand their logic.
John

Good decision.

Have lost count of the number of cruisers with FP problems in mags and blogs and replacing them.

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by downunder

Good decision.

Have lost count of the number of cruisers with FP problems in mags and blogs and replacing them.

Yes they are heaps of junk IMHO

[Lancerbye]

I keep reading these negative reports from bloggers. Since FP make many differrent models using some 7 or so different engines and 14 different generator units it would be nice to get specifics rather then generalities. So one could peg down the problem units. These are German made with such engines as Kabuta, Audi- VW, Mercedes, Yanmar, and Fairymann. Are the problems in the engines?, Or the generators and which units?. If I ever have to replace mine I would like to sort the bad from the good. Saying they are all junk is like saying all GM cars are junk based on some of their mistakes.