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Old 04-09-2016, 23:39   #121
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Re: 12 Volt air conditioner may be availabe soon

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Originally Posted by StuM View Post
According to many sources, including the US Dept of Enegy:

The amount of electricity consumed to supply the inrush current is equal to a few seconds or less of normal light operation. Turning off fluorescent lights for more than 5 seconds will save more energy than will be consumed in turning them back on again.

Thanks StuM. Another misconception dispelled.
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Old 05-09-2016, 06:09   #122
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Re: 12 Volt air conditioner may be availabe soon

Hello,

I know I will get a lot of crap for this, but living on my boats. I have the luxury of factories in my back yard to make what fits my needs.

Working with engineer matses. We improved the purity of Peltier TEC semiconductor modals for a Thermo Electric cooling.

I actually use this when the sun is on the solar panels to cool the galley and cabin. I am happy no matter what anyone says.

I am at the same climate as southern Florida... Just removing the humidity all day long, and then the 8 inch 24v DC fan at night circulating the air makes for a comfy nights rest !!

http://youtu.be/GVZnmtendbE

Alan



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Old 05-09-2016, 07:21   #123
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Re: 12 Volt air conditioner may be availabe soon

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Originally Posted by billb596 View Post
Here is an outside the box idea. I have one of these for our home, https://bedjet.com/ draws 40 watts and keeps you nice and cool. If you use it in heat mode is where it starts sucking down the power.
I'm surprised no one else showed any interest in this setup. It's much more efficient to cool just the bed rather than the cabin, especially with all of the conduction losses through the uninsulated hull. They claim it only draws 40 watts. I'm curious what they're using for a cooling mechanism.

I like the concept of cooling just the bed, drawing out moisture, the low power draw and the precision temp. control. In my case, for example, if I'm sleeping under 1 sheet, the room needs to be down to 74*F for me to be comfortable. However, if this thing can get the temp. under the sheet down to around 76*, I'd be just as comfortable, even if the rest of the cabin is 85*. I'd still use open hatches, a 12v hatch fan, etc, but this might be the extra little bit of cooling that really makes the difference for very little power draw.
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Old 05-09-2016, 07:41   #124
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Re: 12 Volt air conditioner may be availabe soon

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Originally Posted by GoingWalkabout View Post
Very useful information thruska. Thank you. Correct me if I'm wrong but I think your talking about the cord recoil also found in hairdryers.

I'm still in the shopping mode mode. Pretty well settled on what I don't want while narrowing down to 3 choices. First I'm set on the Lagoon cats. I love the layouts of owners in the 56 and 62. I don't like the 52 because of bad reports on speed under sail. I also can't get past the ugliness of the mast in the salon. Different if it was a monohull but very out of place on the cat IMHO.

Then there is the tried and trusted L450. Nifty under sail. Stable at sea and the owners layout is nice.

The price difference between new and two or three years old in the 450 is dramatic. So if I chose the baby of the 3 models I would buy 2 or 3 years old. The L560 is really a nice cat. I love the layout. Especially the owners version where you can come and go from the master cabin from a hatch door onto the cockpit. Also the VIP cabin is great as well. The L560 is holding its price better than the L450 but it seems to be harder to sell in the after market. I think it's slow sales compared to the L450 is because it's nearly double the price.

Then you come to my dream boat. The L620. Owners version with galley downstairs. I've even seen models with a jacuzzi in the master suite bathroom. interesting thing is that it's only a 200K or so more than the L560. That is on the previous owned market.

I've been told to cross the L620 off my list because it just too big for single or couple handling. I really don't buy that since I know from my powerboat days many powerboat erst have brought on 60 foot plus vessels single handed. With electric winches everywhere I think it's very manageable. Only issue would be having to manhandle the mainsail if it gets stuck.

Insurance, haul out, bottom cleaning and marina slips charges will be almost 2/3 rd of the much smaller L450. Much larger engines will also burn more fuel. But as in all things even on land if you want to live in a larger and nicer house you pay for it. My biggest concern is the social aspect. I would want to fit in to the local scene whatever marina or port I'm in without sticking out ostentatiously. I think you get the idea.

So all in all I'm coming back to choosing between the L450 and the L560. The L450 has a lot of advantages. Lower profile in not drawing attention to oneself. With the price difference between the L450 and L560 I could take that money and buy my onwards slip or slips. While also upgrading with all the stuff I really want like a solar system to kill for and that amazing Flur rotating very long distance night vision camera. Also a jet tender would be great as well.

I may reverse myself and just go ahead and buy new either the L450 or L560. The next 6 to 8 months I plan, all things going well, to make my final decision. Much will depend on what I also choose to do with my business interests. I could very well see entertaining business associates on the L620 both on the east coast of the USA and using it as a base while doing business in Europe.

So many issues to think about. In the meantime I'm learning as much as I can on all the systems onboard. Such as how best to set up the solar. One way or the other I plan to take the plunge early next year (if not sooner). Using the time now to learn, learn, and learn more.

Regards,
Chaya
LOL...Sounds like you can use a deckboy! *wink-wink*
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Old 05-09-2016, 09:04   #125
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Re: 12 Volt air conditioner may be availabe soon

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Originally Posted by StuM View Post
Ambient outside air temperature will be lower than the exhaust air, same as with any aircon. Just make sure that it is venting downwind
But if you're going to suck in outside air, might as well just use a fan in the window.
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Old 05-09-2016, 09:21   #126
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Re: 12 Volt air conditioner may be availabe soon

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Originally Posted by socaldmax View Post
But if you're going to suck in outside air, might as well just use a fan in the window.
Yep just don't pay any attention to the air being exhausted out the cool side being many deg below the ambient air temp in the room or ambient outside air
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Old 05-09-2016, 09:31   #127
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Re: 12 Volt air conditioner may be availabe soon

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Yep just don't pay any attention to the air being exhausted out the cool side being many deg below the ambient air temp in the room or ambient outside air
I own an 11,000 BTU version of one of those, believe me, for as little cooling as it does for the power consumed, it was a waste of space and money. Yes, it puts out cold air. Yes, it sucks in hot ambient air. The hot ambient air does a good job of negating probably 50% of it's cooling power.

There's a good reason why real A/Cs draw and vent their hot air outside, and not draw it from inside.
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Old 05-09-2016, 10:48   #128
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Re: 12 Volt air conditioner may be availabe soon

Quote:
Originally Posted by GoingWalkabout View Post
Very useful information thruska. Thank you. Correct me if I'm wrong but I think your talking about the cord recoil also found in hairdryers.

I'm still in the shopping mode mode. Pretty well settled on what I don't want while narrowing down to 3 choices. First I'm set on the Lagoon cats. I love the layouts of owners in the 56 and 62. I don't like the 52 because of bad reports on speed under sail. I also can't get past the ugliness of the mast in the salon. Different if it was a monohull but very out of place on the cat IMHO.

Then there is the tried and trusted L450. Nifty under sail. Stable at sea and the owners layout is nice.

The price difference between new and two or three years old in the 450 is dramatic. So if I chose the baby of the 3 models I would buy 2 or 3 years old. The L560 is really a nice cat. I love the layout. Especially the owners version where you can come and go from the master cabin from a hatch door onto the cockpit. Also the VIP cabin is great as well. The L560 is holding its price better than the L450 but it seems to be harder to sell in the after market. I think it's slow sales compared to the L450 is because it's nearly double the price.

Then you come to my dream boat. The L620. Owners version with galley downstairs. I've even seen models with a jacuzzi in the master suite bathroom. interesting thing is that it's only a 200K or so more than the L560. That is on the previous owned market.

I've been told to cross the L620 off my list because it just too big for single or couple handling. I really don't buy that since I know from my powerboat days many powerboat erst have brought on 60 foot plus vessels single handed. With electric winches everywhere I think it's very manageable. Only issue would be having to manhandle the mainsail if it gets stuck.

Insurance, haul out, bottom cleaning and marina slips charges will be almost 2/3 rd of the much smaller L450. Much larger engines will also burn more fuel. But as in all things even on land if you want to live in a larger and nicer house you pay for it. My biggest concern is the social aspect. I would want to fit in to the local scene whatever marina or port I'm in without sticking out ostentatiously. I think you get the idea.

So all in all I'm coming back to choosing between the L450 and the L560. The L450 has a lot of advantages. Lower profile in not drawing attention to oneself. With the price difference between the L450 and L560 I could take that money and buy my onwards slip or slips. While also upgrading with all the stuff I really want like a solar system to kill for and that amazing Flur rotating very long distance night vision camera. Also a jet tender would be great as well.

I may reverse myself and just go ahead and buy new either the L450 or L560. The next 6 to 8 months I plan, all things going well, to make my final decision. Much will depend on what I also choose to do with my business interests. I could very well see entertaining business associates on the L620 both on the east coast of the USA and using it as a base while doing business in Europe.

So many issues to think about. In the meantime I'm learning as much as I can on all the systems onboard. Such as how best to set up the solar. One way or the other I plan to take the plunge early next year (if not sooner). Using the time now to learn, learn, and learn more.

Regards,
Chaya
Chaya, I've never used that type of hair dryer. I'm going to assume the design is similar although much smaller than required. The design concept is of course also used for small combustible engine pull starters.

Good luck in your quest. Glad to hear it's coming to fruition for you.

Solar is definitely a relavant system aboard any boat.
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Old 05-09-2016, 10:56   #129
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Re: 12 Volt air conditioner may be availabe soon

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Originally Posted by thruska View Post
Chaya, I've never used that type of hair dryer. I'm going to assume the design is similar although much smaller than required. The design concept is of course also used for small combustible engine pull starters.

Good luck in your quest. Glad to hear it's coming to fruition for you.

Solar is definitely a relavant system aboard any boat.
Thanks Thruska.
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Old 05-09-2016, 13:19   #130
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Re: 12 Volt air conditioner may be availabe soon

Funny, my car has two modes on the AC controls, a recirculation one where the air inside the passenger compartment feeds back into the AC to get cooled. And a fresh air intake one where I'm constantly cooling outdoors air. Nothing like this for boats? You would need a separate "hot air exhaust" duct of course.
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Old 05-09-2016, 13:42   #131
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Re: 12 Volt air conditioner may be availabe soon

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Funny, my car has two modes on the AC controls, a recirculation one where the air inside the passenger compartment feeds back into the AC to get cooled. And a fresh air intake one where I'm constantly cooling outdoors air. Nothing like this for boats? You would need a separate "hot air exhaust" duct of course.
Why would you want to cool outside air when you can recirculate?
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Old 05-09-2016, 14:21   #132
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Re: 12 Volt air conditioner may be availabe soon

Recirculated air gets a bit stale since your breath etc sticks around. Other mode is 100% fresh new air but consumes more energy. In buildings you aim for a mix of recirculation and fresh air passing over the AC coils. Keeps the air quality decent. Not a complicated thing to DIY. Ahead of the intake to the AC unit put an intake air box with both fresh and cabin air intakes. Fit the box with a movable flap. Swung one way is 100% fresh air, other way is 100% cabin air. Set the flap to whatever suits best. Recirculating on startup to cool fast, over to about 25% fresh once comfortable. Go to 100% fresh when cooking pasta or having eaten beans. ☺
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Old 05-09-2016, 15:18   #133
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Re: 12 Volt air conditioner may be availabe soon

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Originally Posted by socaldmax View Post
Why would you want to cool outside air when you can recirculate?
In a car, the inside air can be a LOT hotter than the outside air when you first get in.

When I start up, I pull outside air in and cool that (frequently cracking one window open a tad to increase the air flow) since it is the fastest way to get the inside cooled. Once it is down, I switch to re-circulate.

On a long drive, I will occasionally switch to outside air to freshen things up.
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Old 06-09-2016, 10:22   #134
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Re: 12 Volt air conditioner may be availabe soon

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LOL...Sounds like you can use a deckboy! *wink-wink*
Deckhand of any gender as long as they keep their hands to themselves
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Old 08-09-2016, 11:55   #135
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Re: 12 Volt air conditioner may be availabe soon

Just some observations on the original product.

The battery does not come with the unit at the $350 pre-purchase price. That special is actually no longer available - you now have to pay $389, and that does not include the battery. Minimum investment to get a battery right now is $568 ($788 retail).

It states it will cool a 50 sq ft room to 44 degrees. Given a typical home has 7' 10" walls this equates to roughly 392 cubic feet. What it doesn't say is what type of room, insulation, etc. I have worked for a startup company before developing electrical equipment - I am guessing they put it in a supply closet or something similar and left it on all night long. If that's the case then the beginning ambient temperature would have been around 72-75 degrees - a far cry from southern Florida in the summer.

That being said, if I lived at a dock with shore power I'd be willing to give it a try.


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Originally Posted by thruska View Post
Search - trucker dc. A/C
Lots of different ones available both 12v and 24v
Battery up.
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Originally Posted by thruska View Post
Sorry , if you try ...
Trucker cab dc AC
That's better...
These are simply coolers that you put ice in. Google "Homemade air conditioner DIY" and save yourself $400. I made this exact thing and use 2 blocks of ice (less than $6) to cool my granddaughters room. Here in North Idaho it doesn't generally get too hot but this summer we had a quite a few days in the 90's. I'd put this in her room (which has sun on one wall all day long) about an hour or two before bedtime and it would make a noticeable difference and she would sleep all night long. Her room is approximately 940 cubic feet. I am willing to bet it would do just as well as the Zero Breeze.

I also saw a write-up about someone building one for their boat and they would take the lid off and use white marine poly, this way they didn't ruin the cooler. He also used a a mixture of water and alcohol but I don't remember what it was, Google "DIY Blue Ice".
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