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Old 02-09-2016, 16:06   #91
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Re: 12 Volt air conditioner may be availabe soon

Chaya,
Our setup will use two Mastervolt MPPT Chargemasters each one controlling one per side of our Bimini top array.
Each side has 2x325w and 1x245w Sunpower E20 panels running in parallel to their respective MPPT. This design is to minimize shadowing losses and because we're feeding a large 24v bank the cable sizes are reasonable.
We are using Mastervolt's digital control system for system management including: Lithium BMS, Alpha Pro II alternator charging, and twin MPPT 60 solar controllers.
A display unit with system graphics is being built for 220/110 isolation transformers, 24v house bank, 12v engine systems etc.
We expect to be able to run 2 or 3 16,000 btu air cons overnight without genset use.
The system won't be in operation until Jan 2017 launch but I'll share results by mid next year.
Paul



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Old 02-09-2016, 16:21   #92
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Re: 12 Volt air conditioner may be availabe soon

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Originally Posted by Catalysis View Post
Chaya,
Our setup will use two Mastervolt MPPT Chargemasters each one controlling one per side of our Bimini top array.
Each side has 2x325w and 1x245w Sunpower E20 panels running in parallel to their respective MPPT. This design is to minimize shadowing losses and because we're feeding a large 24v bank the cable sizes are reasonable.
We are using Mastervolt's digital control system for system management including: Lithium BMS, Alpha Pro II alternator charging, and twin MPPT 60 solar controllers.
A display unit with system graphics is being built for 220/110 isolation transformers, 24v house bank, 12v engine systems etc.
We expect to be able to run 2 or 3 16,000 btu air cons overnight without genset use.
The system won't be in operation until Jan 2017 launch but I'll share results by mid next year.
Paul



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Fantastic Paul. Thank you so much for sharing. Sounds like an amazing setup. Congratulations.

Chaya
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Old 02-09-2016, 17:11   #93
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Re: 12 Volt air conditioner may be availabe soon

Chaya,
My pleasure - we can all learn something in these forums through sharing.
Paul


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Old 02-09-2016, 18:10   #94
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Re: 12 Volt air conditioner may be availabe soon

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Originally Posted by HKTim View Post
I've been experimenting with a transition to battery driven air con this summer and have data from 6 nights on the hook that is encouraging. Motivation is the genset is still a noisy distraction inside the boat and I generally feel more at ease with it not running while I sleep (not logical perhaps but it is what it is).

My boat is a Leopard 48. I've installed two Mastervolt 360 lithium batteries for my house and have two 12 volt 150 amp battery chargers that run off the genset and 12 volt 130 amp alternators on each engine. So theoretical charging is 560 amps at 12 volts.

I've done the following test:

1. For the master cabin, I run the air con off the genset for one hour before bed at 10 pm to cool boat to 21 C. Ambient air temp is 30-32C, humidity in the 80-90% range and water temp is 28C. Door to saloon and toilet are kept shut.

2. I keep two 12 volt fridges on all night. Stated amps from manufacturer are 4.88 + 3.6 per hour (Vitrifrigo 210 litre drawer fridge/freezer and 90 litre cockpit fridge. Other minimal use from lights as well but its not material to analysis.

3. At 10 PM turn off genset and set thermostat to 25C and turn on cabin fan. Inverter is turned on and all power comes from battery bank for 8 hours through the night. Obviously while the genset was running prior to 10 pm, it ensured that the house bank was fully charged when AC power was cut 10 pm.

4. I wake up at 6 am and turn off the air con and record amps consumed using Mastervolt Easy View.

5. For the 12000 BTU air con and 2 fridges, the DC consumed has been between 30 and 49 amps per hour. The average over the 6 nights was 37 amps per hour.

6. So I am on average using 296 amps from a 720 amp lithium battery bank to run one air con and 2 fridge units for 8 hours. This is easily recharged the next morning with a combination of motoring or genset. A lot of the discussion above failed to recognise that the air con and fridges will be cycling off frequently throughout the night. Based on my experience, I estimate that the air con and fridges are really only "ON" about 35-40% of the time.

I am very happy with the results and am now planning to add a third 360 amp lithium battery to my house bank to I can run air con in two cabins through the night.
Thank You sir...
Excellent data, I feel with solar and a wind generator you will last longer and you did this with a 12000 btu unit My goal is to not have a genny (other than a back up Honda)
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Old 02-09-2016, 18:37   #95
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Re: 12 Volt air conditioner may be availabe soon

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Chaya,
My pleasure - we can all learn something in these forums through sharing.
Paul


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Just an idea. I've been thinking of having 2 wind generators as well as the solar. Problem is I want to minimise shadow over the panels and having the wind turbines on poles will invariably cast shadows. So here's me thought. Have some kind of folding joint in the middle of the turbine mounting pole. A hinge that will allow the pole to fold down on sunny days and found up on rainy days and night. Problem will be the wires. Will probably have to run the wires for the turbine on the outside of the pole in some manner. Maybe a silly idea but I like thinking problem solving outside the box.

Again thanks for your detailed post. Very very helpful.

Chaya.
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Old 02-09-2016, 20:15   #96
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Re: 12 Volt air conditioner may be availabe soon

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Originally Posted by GoingWalkabout View Post
Just an idea. I've been thinking of having 2 wind generators as well as the solar. Problem is I want to minimise shadow over the panels and having the wind turbines on poles will invariably cast shadows. So here's me thought. Have some kind of folding joint in the middle of the turbine mounting pole. A hinge that will allow the pole to fold down on sunny days and found up on rainy days and night. Problem will be the wires. Will probably have to run the wires for the turbine on the outside of the pole in some manner. Maybe a silly idea but I like thinking problem solving outside the box.

Again thanks for your detailed post. Very very helpful.

Chaya.
Chaya, you may want to consider telescopic pole. That may allow you to still generate power in instances when you have surface wind. When hinged you may not be able to do that depending on the design. Of course you then need to ensure that your wiring inside the pole doesn't pile up.
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Old 02-09-2016, 21:26   #97
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Re: 12 Volt air conditioner may be availabe soon

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Chaya, you may want to consider telescopic pole. That may allow you to still generate power in instances when you have surface wind. When hinged you may not be able to do that depending on the design. Of course you then need to ensure that your wiring inside the pole doesn't pile up.
Thruska. I think your idea of a telescopic pole is great. Have to work out the brackets and an opening in the bottom of the pole so the wire can travel down and not bunch up. The pole will need a mount that takes astern of the panels or to the port or Stern say 12 inches or more away from the edge of the panel.

On the other hand if on a cat you mount the panels as a virtual extension of the cabin roof back over the davits. You could have the wind generators on starboard and port just under the height of the panels. No shadow. No adjustment. Just may loose some wind though.

Need to think this through some more.

Great idea thruska.

Chaya
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Old 02-09-2016, 23:04   #98
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Re: 12 Volt air conditioner may be availabe soon

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On the other hand if on a cat you mount the panels as a virtual extension of the cabin roof back over the davits. You could have the wind generators on starboard and port just under the height of the panels. No shadow. No adjustment. Just may loose some wind though.
That's the understatement of the year.

Not only that, but there are all sorts of other reasons why that is a bad idea including safety, noise and practicality of getting a suitable swing circle..

There are good reasons why wind generators are mounted high up and away from structures.
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Old 02-09-2016, 23:16   #99
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Re: 12 Volt air conditioner may be availabe soon

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That's the understatement of the year.

Not only that, but there are all sorts of other reasons why that is a bad idea including safety, noise and practicality of getting a suitable swing circle..

There are good reasons why wind generators are mounted high up and away from structures.
You convinced me. So back to the telescopic drawing board.
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Old 03-09-2016, 08:00   #100
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Re: 12 Volt air conditioner may be availabe soon

Chaya,
Here's a schematic of our Solar Panel layout.
Paul
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Old 03-09-2016, 10:32   #101
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Re: 12 Volt air conditioner may be availabe soon

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You also need to account for the fact that boats have no insulation and the residual heat from the decks, hull and bulkheads would greatly diminish the cooling effect of the AC unit. (i think we should double the cycle time)

I have a question to ponder, i recently sold my 40 footer, it had fore and aft cabins a genset and two 10,000btu cruisair AC units. It cooled of the entire boat fairly well. Does anyone have a setup where they just cool off the sleeping cabin with a 5000/6000 btu unit run solely off of batterys? I am thinking my next boat we will forego a genset and get 600Ah lithiums and 1000-1200 watts of solar and a wind genny.
you can, and should, fix that issue. i insulated my boat with 1/2 inch armaflex. now, on the coldest winter days, here in the land of mary, my little ceramic heater can keep the cabin temp at 80. i actually have to turn the heat down to keep from getting over heated. before insulating, the heater could keep it just warm enough to avoid mildew and dripping water but, if you wanted it to be at least 60 degrees in the living space, you had to shut off the forward cabin and only use the main cabin.

even without air conditioning, insulation can make a huge difference on the heat of your interior. i don't have a/c but, using two fans to keep air flowing, it's always a lot cooler below decks. during the worst days, this summer, you couldn't stand being on deck for very long (drenched in sweat) and heat exhaustion was a concern. what i did was chill below decks and, work on boat projects after sun down. the conditions below were pretty decent and sweat free.

it's so funny how dependent we are on machines. why waste time and money trying to heat and cool your boat with machines without first insulating to control the heat exchange between outside and inside? armaflex may be a modern material but, insulation is an old idea and it doesn't drain your batteries.
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Old 04-09-2016, 05:53   #102
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Re: 12 Volt air conditioner may be availabe soon

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Originally Posted by Catalysis View Post
Chaya,
Our setup will use two Mastervolt MPPT Chargemasters each one controlling one per side of our Bimini top array.
Each side has 2x325w and 1x245w Sunpower E20 panels running in parallel to their respective MPPT. This design is to minimize shadowing losses and because we're feeding a large 24v bank the cable sizes are reasonable.
We are using Mastervolt's digital control system for system management including: Lithium BMS, Alpha Pro II alternator charging, and twin MPPT 60 solar controllers.
A display unit with system graphics is being built for 220/110 isolation transformers, 24v house bank, 12v engine systems etc.
We expect to be able to run 2 or 3 16,000 btu air cons overnight without genset use.
The system won't be in operation until Jan 2017 launch but I'll share results by mid next year.
Paul



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Very nice sir!

What is the capacity of your battery's? Are you using wind? One thing that i realize now that is an easy solution is to add an additional 120 amp alternator to the engine this will create a pretty decent charge (close to 3000w) for re-charging lithiums along with that solar, and wind.
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Old 04-09-2016, 05:59   #103
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Re: 12 Volt air conditioner may be availabe soon

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I have a 28' boat... I have an 11 THOUSAND BTU AC... In Florida in the summer it just barely gets the boat to 85F...... 11 HUNDRED BTU's wouldn't cool a sleeping bag!
...and we have a 44 foot sailboat, with only one, 12k unit, and we get by even in the heat of the Chesapeake. The key is there is all of 4 inches of ductwork, and the boat while not insulated, the cabinetry forms an airspace all around the boat. She also has cored decks, the v berth is not cooled, (we keep it shut off), and the center cockpit is covered with light colors.

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Old 04-09-2016, 06:01   #104
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Re: 12 Volt air conditioner may be availabe soon

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you can, and should, fix that issue. i insulated my boat with 1/2 inch armaflex. now, on the coldest winter days.
Yes, I refit my engine compartment on my endeavour this way. I Took all the engine panels out and re-fit with insulation and vented with an intake and exuast fans to move heat and foul diesel smells. made a big difference in sound and some heat.
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Old 04-09-2016, 07:14   #105
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Re: 12 Volt air conditioner may be availabe soon

svgenesis ,
Our Battery setup is 20kw of 24v lithium ion phosphate batteries with BMS, we also have three 12v AGM starter batteries (one for each engine and the genset).
The 12v bus is charged by 12v 80amp alternators on each engine and backed up by parallel 24-12v step down voltage converters.
We do not plan on using wind-gensets but instead will rely on 1.8kw of solar and the recharge capacity of a 9kw genset and two additional 24v (2.5kw) alternators (one per engine).
The lithium's capacity for rapid charge should allow us to use the genset infrequently when on a passage - perhaps more in the tropics in windless coves when using A/C etc.
Our Watermakers are 24v (2x350 gpd) so we don't need the genset for that purpose.
But who knows - we'll see next year.


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