420: Why Are the Hybrids Being Converted to Diesel ?

[bryguy67]

I've read the most recent of the 73 pages of L-420 info on this forum, and towards the end there is mention of the hybrids being converted to diesel due to the unique system requiring more input and thought than conventional diesels for what typical charter customers prefer for their short visits. But after the G2 upgrade (and/or the 2009 version if that's any different than G2), is there any real reason that a non-charter 420 should be converted to diesel? I'm also wondering if anyone has changed out their original batteries, and if so to what kind, and with how much success or difference. Also, has the taller mast on the 2009's made significant changes in sailing performance?

Cheers,

Bryan

[roverhi]

Only if you want reliable propulsion capable of handling high thrust requirements. Hear the electric motors just weren't up to powering the boats where the higher available hp/torque came into play. Electrickery on a boat is just a disaster waiting to happen, in any case. Also, without alternate energy supplying all the juice for the batteries, hybrid propulsion is less efficient use of carbon fuels.

Contrary to popular opinion, electric or diesel hp/torque are the same. If a boat takes two 40 hp diesels to power into a headwind/headsea, it will also take 40 hp electric motors to do the same. For most conditions the diesels will be run at way less than their maximum and an electric motor of way less capacity will suffice. Understand that the electric motors were way undersized for high hp/torque conditions.

[thinwater]

Originally Posted by roverhi

Only if you want reliable propulsion capable of handling high thrust requirements. Hear the electric motors just weren't up to powering the boats where the higher available hp/torque came into play. Electrickery on a boat is just a disaster waiting to happen, in any case. Also, without alternate energy supplying all the juice for the batteries, hybrid propulsion is less efficient use of carbon fuels.

Contrary to popular opinion, electric or diesel hp/torque are the same. If a boat takes two 40 hp diesels to power into a headwind/headsea, it will also take 40 hp electric motors to do the same. For most conditions the diesels will be run at way less than their maximum and an electric motor of way less capacity will suffice. Understand that the electric motors were way undersized for high hp/torque conditions.

So there ain't no such thing as a free lunch after all?

Hybrids work where regenerative braking works (Prius).
Hybrids work on cruise ships, where the Ac and casino electric load is greater than the drive load.

For the rest of us, not so much.

[beiland]

Originally Posted by bryguy67

I've read the most recent of the 73 pages of L-420 info on this forum, and towards the end there is mention of the hybrids being converted to diesel due to the unique system requiring more input and thought than conventional diesels for what typical charter customers prefer for their short visits. But after the G2 upgrade (and/or the 2009 version if that's any different than G2), is there any real reason that a non-charter 420 should be converted to diesel? I'm also wondering if anyone has changed out their original batteries, and if so to what kind, and with how much success or difference.Bryan

Can you provide me with the direct link to those numerous discussions you mention??

[spostamento nobile]

Electrickery. I'm so stealing that.

[bryguy67]

Yeah but (stomping feet in frustration) I WANT that "electrickery" to work! Re-gen under sail instead of while breaking like in my hybrid car. Hope somebody gets it right soon. Hey Thinwater...you have terrific taste in boats. Beiland, the link to the other discussions you asked for is http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...fans-5250.html

There are 73 pages of stuff; it's the previous 420 section on CF prior to this one and dates back to 2007.
Thanks everybody for your replies.

[dacust]

Originally Posted by bryguy67

Yeah but (stomping feet in frustration) I WANT that "electrickery" to work! Re-gen under sail instead of while breaking like in my hybrid car. Hope somebody gets it right soon.
...

Problem is, the re-gen under braking is done on a very short-term basis. You brake, seconds later you use the power you generated. Very small batteries are needed to take advantage of it.

On a sailboat, it may be hours or days between changes of power requirements. You have wind for hours or days, then you have none for hours or days.

In addition, to generate power, you'd be towing a generator or using a wind generator, or dragging the propellers, etc. Whatever you use, you aren't using energy you'd otherwise throw away. To generate that electricity, you would be sacrificing speed. The only time you'd really gain is when the wind is powerful enough where you are not running flat out. The drag is offset by using a little more sail than you normally would under those conditions. Now, what percentage of the time are you running under those conditions?

I just don't see how a car-type hybrid is ever going to be as successful in a boat as it is in a car. It's just totally different dynamics.

Now, THIS type of hybrid might work.

==> Wave Runner

The wave powered boat might be able to use wind power, and also wave power, and maybe generate electricity from the waves. You STILL have the issue of just how much electricity you can store. So, the electricity generation is still more of a byproduct, rather than a serious propulsion option.

A very convenient by-product, that is. Imagine being at anchor and generating power with the wind when it's around, the sun when it's out, and the waves when they're bouncing. That's a lot of options. Surely ONE of those is happening all the time.

-dan