Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 19-06-2012, 17:46   #1
Registered User
 
timbenner's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Ponte Vedra Beach, FL
Boat: Lagoon 380, 38', I Dream of Jeanne
Posts: 313
Images: 7
Which Lagoon is the best?

I thought that this thread subject, together with the opinions that follow, would be very useful for potential or future Lagoon owners in picking which model best fits their needs. It could help them wade through the pros and cons of the different cats offered. Obviously, we all have different needs, wants and financial constraints, so nothing personal regarding the pros and cons mentioned about any boat (which might be yours). I am not a live aboard, so possibly my opinion would change if I was, because my need for crap on board would increase.

Why I chose the 380, Owner's Version:

1) I'm a coastal cruiser on the East Coast of the USA. The East Coast of the USA has one of the best boating assets in the World, the IntraCoastal Waterway (ICW). It enables you to travel inland and protected from Key West, Florida to New Jersey, without having to go out in the ocean. So if you're in the ocean and the weather turns bad, just pop in an inlet and continue your journey on the ICW. If you get tired of ocean sailing boredom and want to explore waterfront restaurants, marinas, an infinite variety of anchorages, etc., just pop in the inlet.

The bridges spanning over the ICW are all (with the exception of 2 - one in north Miami 56' and one in New Jersey 56') a minimum of 65' clearance or draw bridges. All of the larger Lagoons masts exceed this clearance, unless of course you cut them down, thereby under powering the boat. For me to buy a boat that precludes me from using this asset was out of the question.

2) Money - because of the large number of used charter 380's out there, they are a bargain. Not that I would recommend buying a used charter boat, but they drag the prices of the better owner boats down. So a loaded up used owner's boat (never chartered), with all of the owner stuff and low engine hours, can be bought for a bargain. At least compared to a Manta, for example, of which there are no used charter boats out there.

3) Bigger is not always better. Particularly if you're single handling the boat. A bigger boat weighs more, has larger sails, which require more muscle or electric winches (I have an electric for the main halyard only), more money and basically more of everything. Crossing oceans? Bigger is usually faster, but I wonder if that holds true with the new Lagoons, given their weight. If you're a charter captain, then bigger is better for attracting customers - not me.

4) More heads is NOT better, especially if you're the one maintaining them. Two toilets is one too many, as far as I'm concerned. If you're chartering, then more heads are better - not me.

5) Floorplans. If you look at the Owner's Version boats, you have to get up to 50' before you actually get more rooms. Of course each room is bigger on the larger boats, but you still end up with the same components, 3 staterooms, salon, forward lockers and cockpit.

6) Weight. When is Lagoon going to go on a diet? The 380 weighs approx. 16,000 lbs, the 400 is pushing 23,000 lbs! 5% more length for 44% more weight? What happened? Compare the new 45' with the old 47'. The weight of the new boats has shot up?

7) Helm. I single hand the 380, with my wife and young daughter busy with Barbies. The 380, 410 and old 470's have the best helm for my needs. It's a part of the cockpit and most important, easily accessible to the salon. "Honey, could you hand me another beer?" The fly bridge helm wouldn't work for me, I would be isolated from my crew hanging out in the salon and cockpit. Again, for a charter captain, it's probably an asset to be up there.

8) Marinas. The bigger the cat, the harder to find a slip.

9) Speed. Loaded down with all of the crap you could imagine (approx. 4,000 lbs) I get 10+ knots on a broad reach in 15 to 20 knots of wind. Is that close to the bigger Lagoon boat speeds? Forget Gunboats, that's like comparing a Toyota to a Ferrari.

What do you think?
__________________

__________________
timbenner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-06-2012, 18:43   #2
Registered User
 
SearenitySail's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Great South Bay, Long Island, NY, USA
Boat: TPI Lagoon 35ccc Catamaran designed by Morrelli & Melvin
Posts: 219
Re: Which Lagoon is the best?

Well, Tim, you have certainly made a good case for someone to buy your boat! Are you planning on selling?

Actually I like the Lagoon 360 a lot, though even it is larger than I need.

You make some very valid points though, that applied to the purchase of my boat as well.

I'm not planning on it, however if I ever do move up, the Lagoon 380 will be at or near the top of my list.

Marshall
__________________

__________________
"People sail for fun and no one has yet convinced me that it's more fun to go slow than it is to go fast." -Dick Newick
SearenitySail is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-06-2012, 19:49   #3
Registered User
 
Doodles's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Virginia, USA & Krabi, Thailand
Boat: Wauquiez Pretorien 35; Nordica 16
Posts: 2,810
Images: 1
Re: Which Lagoon is the best?

I looked at my first 380 a couple weeks ago and had only one real complaint. You quickly can't get from the helm to the starboard jib winch. You can't just step down from the helm on the right side (they put a ss support bar there), take a step or two and grab the sheet, you have to exit the helm on the left side and go all the way around the back of the helm and then over the the starboard side.
__________________
Mundis Ex Igne Factus Est
Doodles is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-06-2012, 21:21   #4
Registered User
 
neilpride's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: in the world
Boat: csy 44 tall rig.
Posts: 3,099
Re: Which Lagoon is the best?

Seems to me you buy a Lagoon 380 to sail up and down the ICW,,
Btw , i believe you never be in your Lagoon in 40+plus 7 to 8 breakers?
Well i can tell you, bigger is better, special if we talk about Lagoons, no ofense but to me 45 ft make sense if you want to Cross Oceans, now for the ICW will be fine, the ride in a horrible Gale in Biscay Bay aboard a 380 club premium i will never forget, i dont mean about the layout or the size of the saloon or the cockpit, is about Sea Motion .... To me a Lagoon 38 in fine weather is cool, but in a real Blow i feel better in something between 45 to 55 ft .
__________________
neilpride is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-06-2012, 23:16   #5
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2011
Boat: WTB Lagoon or Leopard 38'-40'
Posts: 1,273
Re: Which Lagoon is the best?

Still need to see a 380 up close, but presently am hot on the 410 and 420.

A quick google scan shows me mast heights under 65' on several of the mid-size lagoons, not just on the 380.

Put me down for the 410 or 420. If the 380 has any advantages over those two boats, I'd be interested to hear them (other than a narrow beam, which can be advantageous)

And thanks for that info about bridge heights, I'd heard about it before but I appreciate your actual numbers - saved me another pointless round of Google searching.
__________________
ArtM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-06-2012, 23:23   #6
Registered User
 
impi's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: From Cape Town now New Caledonia
Boat: Lagoon 440
Posts: 952
Images: 8
Send a message via Skype™ to impi
Re: Which Lagoon is the best?

I'm not sure if it is still available, but when we bought our Lagoon we had the option of a long mast or short mast ....
__________________
In our own style and our own time ...
http://cat-impi.blogspot.com
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCIy...Uhlfkd34f8FrEg
impi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-06-2012, 08:07   #7
Registered User
 
timbenner's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Ponte Vedra Beach, FL
Boat: Lagoon 380, 38', I Dream of Jeanne
Posts: 313
Images: 7
Re: Which Lagoon is the best?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Doodles View Post
I looked at my first 380 a couple weeks ago and had only one real complaint. You quickly can't get from the helm to the starboard jib winch. You can't just step down from the helm on the right side (they put a ss support bar there), take a step or two and grab the sheet, you have to exit the helm on the left side and go all the way around the back of the helm and then over the the starboard side.
Good point, a step down to the right into the cockpit would be an improvement, but not enough room due to the cockpit sliding glass door. Regarding the starboard jib sheet on the older 380's, there is a very easy fix. I installed a "U" bolt in the aft end of the jib track, with a backing plate inside the salon, hidden by the removable wood trim piece in the salon ceiling and then clipped a block to the "U" bolt. Ran the starboard jib sheet through the block, over to a turning block at the helm, into a rope clutch. Now the starboard jib sheet is at the helm. Quick and easy fix.

However, I still have the main halyard and reef lines over at the starboard side. I don't mind having them over there because you don't use them that much and that's where my electric winch is, for hoisting the main. When I'm hoisting the main single handed, I use my steering remote control to keep the boat head up into the wind while hoisting.

You probably know that the new 380's put everything at the helm.
__________________
timbenner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-06-2012, 08:34   #8
Registered User
 
katsumi's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Sydney,NSW, Australia
Boat: Lagoon 400
Posts: 153
Re: Which Lagoon is the best?

We are a live aboard family of four, we are currently enjoying cruising the Northern waters of Australia, with International cruising in the next few years. The L400 has exceeded our expectations in all ways. I spent 25 years looking though Trade a boat magazines and eventually the internet looking for the perfect boat, we owned a few in between, worked on many over the years, even considered building a few times but was informed enough to realise how much time and effort goes into building a decent boat.
The Lagoon 400 is the perfect boat for us.
__________________
Dream as if you'll live forever. Live as if you'll die today.
- James Dean -
katsumi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-06-2012, 08:40   #9
Registered User
 
timbenner's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Ponte Vedra Beach, FL
Boat: Lagoon 380, 38', I Dream of Jeanne
Posts: 313
Images: 7
Re: Which Lagoon is the best?

Quote:
Originally Posted by neilpride View Post
Seems to me you buy a Lagoon 380 to sail up and down the ICW,,
Btw , i believe you never be in your Lagoon in 40+plus 7 to 8 breakers?
Well i can tell you, bigger is better, special if we talk about Lagoons, no ofense but to me 45 ft make sense if you want to Cross Oceans, now for the ICW will be fine, the ride in a horrible Gale in Biscay Bay aboard a 380 club premium i will never forget, i dont mean about the layout or the size of the saloon or the cockpit, is about Sea Motion .... To me a Lagoon 38 in fine weather is cool, but in a real Blow i feel better in something between 45 to 55 ft .
You've got me excited now! What you say makes sense and I hope it's true, because it could open a door to my goal of living aboard and/or more extensive Blue Water travel. My personal problem is that my wife gets SEA SICK on my 380 in 2' seas. So I am limited to calm water with her on the 380. You're right, I haven't been in any rough conditions with her. However, I have been in rough conditions crossing back and forth to the Bahamas, with other crew. She won't make that crossing on the 380, which isn't all bad.

I've got a friend with a Lagoon 440 down in the BVI that we're planning a trip on in a couple of months to test your position that a bigger boat could solve my wife's problem. If she could take 4' to 6' seas on a larger Lagoon, without getting sick, I might have a chance to break out from coastal cruising with her.

If the larger boat works for her and she's willing to do some Blue Water Cruising because of it, I would be rid of the 380 in a heart beat. Dream on.
__________________
timbenner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-06-2012, 17:12   #10
Registered User
 
neilpride's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: in the world
Boat: csy 44 tall rig.
Posts: 3,099
Re: Which Lagoon is the best?

Quote:
Originally Posted by timbenner View Post
You've got me excited now! What you say makes sense and I hope it's true, because it could open a door to my goal of living aboard and/or more extensive Blue Water travel. My personal problem is that my wife gets SEA SICK on my 380 in 2' seas. So I am limited to calm water with her on the 380. You're right, I haven't been in any rough conditions with her. However, I have been in rough conditions crossing back and forth to the Bahamas, with other crew. She won't make that crossing on the 380, which isn't all bad.

I've got a friend with a Lagoon 440 down in the BVI that we're planning a trip on in a couple of months to test your position that a bigger boat could solve my wife's problem. If she could take 4' to 6' seas on a larger Lagoon, without getting sick, I might have a chance to break out from coastal cruising with her.

If the larger boat works for her and she's willing to do some Blue Water Cruising because of it, I would be rid of the 380 in a heart beat. Dream on.
Well, i delivery a couple of 380 from S`deOlone to Martinique in January ,
both trips in Biscay in rough conditions until we reach la Coruņa, and help a friend to sail a 440 to Antigua to, trust me when i say that the motion in the 380 in gale conditions is horrible, kinda fast reactions and very lively, plus the slaming and the creeping , in the other side the 440 in softer conditions 25 to 30 and 7 to 8 ft feel better, not my favorite boat but the extra size made the conditions aboard better, and i feel the 38 heavy, i dont know if others feel the same , but is a heavy boat, meaning that in light winds around 10 knots we use one engine , in other words, the 380 is a perfect size for a couple in benign weather in my opinion.

You mention the mast clearance, i believe this isue is related with the motion in rough weather , short stick , not much beamy , and penalized the perfomance in light winds, but for bridges is like voila im coming mama!!!

Yes your wife is going to love the extra size and better motion, no doubt!!!
__________________
neilpride is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-06-2012, 13:06   #11
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2011
Boat: WTB Lagoon or Leopard 38'-40'
Posts: 1,273
Re: Which Lagoon is the best?

Quote:
Originally Posted by neilpride View Post
Yes your wife is going to love the extra size and better motion, no doubt!!!
?? What were we talking about ?
__________________
ArtM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-06-2012, 14:10   #12
Registered User
 
neilpride's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: in the world
Boat: csy 44 tall rig.
Posts: 3,099
Re: Which Lagoon is the best?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ArtM View Post
?? What were we talking about ?
We talking about Cat size, read the first post.
__________________
neilpride is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-06-2012, 15:03   #13
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2011
Boat: WTB Lagoon or Leopard 38'-40'
Posts: 1,273
Re: Which Lagoon is the best?

Oh yeah... so, what are your wife's hopes and dreams about? (I mean, besides larger size and better motion)

The first time I moved into an RV, it was to go to Alaska for the summer - my ex-wife's "dream" (one of many "life dreams", as it turned out )

I put all the furniture into storage, and put the house up for rent, and we made plans to return for it all as soon as the kids were ready to start school.

Is your wife ready to "chuck it all?" Does she share the goal of a "simple life"? Is she excited about leaving her friends and family for the sea?

Dependents, I find, see things very differently than their providers - and rarely share in the goal and ambitions of their providers. It's part of the reason "money" is so often cited in divorces.

However, I find that more often than not, "money" issues are really "lifestyle choice" issues. There comes a time in many relationships when people simply do not share common goals or interests.

I suggest starting with your WIFE's interests, then see if/how you can make them compatible with YOUR interests.

I was told a story about the first owner of my last boat. He was known to simply wake up on any given day and announce to his wife "See you later honey! I'm off to sea." And he would get into that 34' Hunter and go to sea, often for several weeks at a time.
__________________
ArtM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-06-2012, 17:10   #14
Registered User
 
timbenner's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Ponte Vedra Beach, FL
Boat: Lagoon 380, 38', I Dream of Jeanne
Posts: 313
Images: 7
Re: Which Lagoon is the best?

ArtM,

I like your "first owner's" style! Wonder if he's single now? I leave a couple of times a year, but give more than a wake up warning. Still get bitched out about it. Guess I should stick with the 380, since I mostly single hand, do crossings to the Bahamas with my buddies, which isn't all bad! Fly her over for a stay now and then.

I'm hoping that after we're married longer (6 years now), she'll be glad to see me sail off more often.
__________________
timbenner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-02-2013, 15:28   #15
Registered User
 
brainmaker's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2010
Boat: Lagoon 42#17
Posts: 71
Re: Which Lagoon is the best?

I really enjoyed my L380 premium - except for one thing which became more prominent in winter in the Med - the oval saloon. You can't put your feet up and it/s a bit cramped - even using it on your own. Sailing and quality are impeccable though, as it the fab owner hull, and the cockpit, engines, engineering, layout, and so on. I loved the boat - and it was in fab condition when I sold it with the right options (dont want to be arrogant but I have sailed since birth 40 years ago and I never sold a boat that fast). I have meanwhile sailed the 450 which is .... fab but a bit big.. so am keen on a 400s2 but am also looking at some quicker cats as indeed the 400 looks heavy on paper. But ... living on a boat - the important thing is comfort for me, as you only end up sailing a couple of days a month.
__________________

__________________
brainmaker is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
lagoon

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off




Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 14:51.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.