Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 26-12-2013, 16:31   #1
Registered User

Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 91
Wat's the Performance of the Lagoon 52 under Sail?

hello everyone,
i'm really interested by this yacht, yet i'm not sure how she performs under sail.... any experiences?
thanks !!
alexxx
__________________

__________________
alexxx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-02-2014, 20:07   #2
Registered User
 
RKsailsolo's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: St Paul, US
Boat: Jeanneau 349 2015
Posts: 706
Re: Wat's the Performance of the Lagoon 52 under Sail?

Nothing...bummer. Looking at sister ship L39 and am real keen on checking if promise of aft placed mast delivers.
__________________

__________________
RKsailsolo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-01-2015, 20:59   #3
GGT
Registered User

Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 12
Re: Wat's the Performance of the Lagoon 52 under Sail?

Alexxx,

I chartered a 6 stateroom 52 last summer in the BVI. I had high hopes for it, but the Lagoon 450 out sailed it. My brother was on a 450 owners version, granted less people and gear, but I could not keep up with him to save my life. I tried everything. One strange observation was that the 52 pointed significantly higher on one point of sail (I can't remember now which tack it was better on). I attribute this to the way the main is sheeted. It was tough to get the same sheeting on one tack. The speed difference was significant. I was hitting 8 to 9 knots at 40 degrees in 20 to 25 knots of wind. On the other tack no change in sails (remember self tacking jib so no changes should be needed) speed would drop to 5 to 6 knots. I tried everything to get the same results on both tacks but cold not get the main boom position similar due, again, to the way the main was sheeted.

The Lagoon 450 would run away from us, it was no contest at all. I am trying to make a purchase decision myself, so this plus a hand full of other issues would prevent me from choosing a 52. I guess I need to check out the 56, but that seems like too much boat for 2 people cruising. I am back to the 450 as my preferred size/model.
__________________
GGT is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 26-01-2015, 17:00   #4
Registered User

Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 6
Re: Wat's the Performance of the Lagoon 52 under Sail?

Quote:
Originally Posted by GGT View Post
Alexxx,

I chartered a 6 stateroom 52 last summer in the BVI. I had high hopes for it, but the Lagoon 450 out sailed it. My brother was on a 450 owners version, granted less people and gear, but I could not keep up with him to save my life. I tried everything. One strange observation was that the 52 pointed significantly higher on one point of sail (I can't remember now which tack it was better on). I attribute this to the way the main is sheeted. It was tough to get the same sheeting on one tack. The speed difference was significant. I was hitting 8 to 9 knots at 40 degrees in 20 to 25 knots of wind. On the other tack no change in sails (remember self tacking jib so no changes should be needed) speed would drop to 5 to 6 knots. I tried everything to get the same results on both tacks but cold not get the main boom position similar due, again, to the way the main was sheeted.

The Lagoon 450 would run away from us, it was no contest at all. I am trying to make a purchase decision myself, so this plus a hand full of other issues would prevent me from choosing a 52. I guess I need to check out the 56, but that seems like too much boat for 2 people cruising. I am back to the 450 as my preferred size/model.



You can't compare a 26+ ton boat to a 15 ton boat and expect a fair and accurate
comparison... Of course the 450 out ran it!
__________________
SeaMonkey1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-01-2015, 20:36   #5
Registered User
 
RKsailsolo's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: St Paul, US
Boat: Jeanneau 349 2015
Posts: 706
Wat's the Performance of the Lagoon 52 under Sail?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SeaMonkey1 View Post
You can't compare a 26+ ton boat to a 15 ton boat and expect a fair and accurate

comparison... Of course the 450 out ran it!

Seems logical. Also consider L39 freeboard is huge in ratio to her length, adding additional resistance to a shorter waterline. You pay in performance for the wildly luxurious square footage. Not much better in a Leapord 39 I suspect. If you want to sail a cat with some lux plus fast, it's FP's Mahe on the shorter end of the range.

So for me, this reality lead me back to mono hulls, specifically an Oceanis 41. If the small cats aren't going to perform, I can get a mono with almost as much space plus some level of performance.
__________________
RKsailsolo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-01-2015, 22:39   #6
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Sydney
Boat: Lagoon 400
Posts: 1,094
Re: Wat's the Performance of the Lagoon 52 under Sail?

if i ever change boat L 52 will be.

from dynamics point of view....

as all lagoon boats are the same shape except enlarged & increase weight as you go from 39 or 40, performace should be the same. However, there will be wave lenghts/highs/wind combination where one cat will outsail the other.

Larger boat should have more performance due to improved aerodynamics & larger boat handles on average more wave conditions better.

1 measurement is not enough. It just happened that L45 had lucky day with wave length & height & point of sail. Difference in weight can be considerable just by petrol and water tanks.

i think better question is how much stress on the boat if i want to travel with specific speed. If things breaking, obviously owner has too optimistic view of the boat abilities.
__________________
arsenelupiga is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 27-01-2015, 04:53   #7
Eternal Member
 
monte's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Australia
Boat: Lagoon 400
Posts: 3,650
Images: 1
Re: Wat's the Performance of the Lagoon 52 under Sail?

The lagoons have vastly different performance. This is partly due to the weight/sail area ratio. For example if you look at the L400 compared to the L39 you will see similar weights but a difference in sail area. Last year we were sailing next to a L52 in our L380 and I was trying to slow down to take some pics of it. We were both on a beam reach with jib and main in 15K wind doing around 7K. I think the optional code zero for the L52 and L39 are a must have to bring the performance up to design. Maybe the rigs were designed to enable less reefing, ie starting out with the equivalent of one reef in the main and jib, with the option of adding sail area via code zero or spin in lighter airs
__________________
monte is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-01-2015, 05:04   #8
Eternal Member
 
monte's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Australia
Boat: Lagoon 400
Posts: 3,650
Images: 1
Re: Wat's the Performance of the Lagoon 52 under Sail?

GGT, we find the same thing with different speeds on different tacks. It's likely to be a combination of sea state, current, log reading and instrument setup. Imagine a 1K current from directly ahead on a starboard tack, will slow your SOG by 1K, but not effect your leeway, on the other tack you will have a worse angle with the additional leeway but better boat speed. Also a couple of degrees of the wind vane setting will double from tack to tack so while 35 degrees might be good for one, it may be 40 on the other. Having spent some time on the L52 and L450, I would prefer own the L450 unless they have worked out the many bugs the early L52s had. Both more than enough boat for a couple but still manageable.
__________________
monte is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-01-2015, 22:29   #9
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Sydney
Boat: Lagoon 400
Posts: 1,094
Re: Wat's the Performance of the Lagoon 52 under Sail?

Quote:
Originally Posted by monte View Post
The lagoons have vastly different performance. This is partly due to the weight/sail area ratio. For example if you look at the L400 compared to the L39 you will see similar weights but a difference in sail area. Last year we were sailing next to a L52 in our L380 and I was trying to slow down to take some pics of it. We were both on a beam reach with jib and main in 15K wind doing around 7K. I think the optional code zero for the L52 and L39 are a must have to bring the performance up to design. Maybe the rigs were designed to enable less reefing, ie starting out with the equivalent of one reef in the main and jib, with the option of adding sail area via code zero or spin in lighter airs
ok, you right, checked the numbers.

From ARC numbers can see that L450 has 7 % better rating than L400 although they are almost the same shape. Sail to weight ratio L400 is less than L45. Wonder why architect designed that way....

Looks of 52 win hands down against any cat i have seen.
__________________
arsenelupiga is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 27-01-2015, 23:39   #10
Senior Cruiser
 
44'cruisingcat's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,452
Images: 69
Re: Wat's the Performance of the Lagoon 52 under Sail?

Quote:
Originally Posted by GGT View Post
Alexxx,

I chartered a 6 stateroom 52 last summer in the BVI. I had high hopes for it, but the Lagoon 450 out sailed it. My brother was on a 450 owners version, granted less people and gear, but I could not keep up with him to save my life. I tried everything. One strange observation was that the 52 pointed significantly higher on one point of sail (I can't remember now which tack it was better on). I attribute this to the way the main is sheeted. It was tough to get the same sheeting on one tack. The speed difference was significant. I was hitting 8 to 9 knots at 40 degrees in 20 to 25 knots of wind. On the other tack no change in sails (remember self tacking jib so no changes should be needed) speed would drop to 5 to 6 knots. I tried everything to get the same results on both tacks but cold not get the main boom position similar due, again, to the way the main was sheeted.
Could also have been a zero error in the wind angle indication?
__________________
44'cruisingcat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-01-2015, 23:41   #11
Senior Cruiser
 
44'cruisingcat's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,452
Images: 69
Re: Wat's the Performance of the Lagoon 52 under Sail?

Quote:
Originally Posted by arsenelupiga View Post

Looks of 52 win hands down against any cat i have seen.

You must be joking.
__________________
44'cruisingcat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-01-2015, 00:09   #12
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Sydney
Boat: Lagoon 400
Posts: 1,094
Re: Wat's the Performance of the Lagoon 52 under Sail?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 44'cruisingcat View Post
You must be joking.
no. totally serious. before that catana 47.
__________________
arsenelupiga is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 28-01-2015, 11:14   #13
GGT
Registered User

Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 12
Re: Wat's the Performance of the Lagoon 52 under Sail?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SeaMonkey1 View Post
You can't compare a 26+ ton boat to a 15 ton boat and expect a fair and accurate
comparison... Of course the 450 out ran it!
SeaMonkey,

Fair comment. I was thinking in terms of longer water line more sail area faster boat. Totally ignored weight. Went an looked at the sail area and weight and 450 is a ringer against the 52 giving up 11T with only 300 sq Ft of sail to carry the 11T.

On the sail angle, the issue I was seeing was related to the way the boom was setup with the main sheet connects to the traveler and outhaul forms a kind of A shape when looking at the sheet. When sailing on a starboard tack 40 degrees or closer, there was no way to get the boom angle near the center of the boat. I am not saying that it needed to be there, but even running the traveler all the way to the starboard side the sail under load could not be sheeted in the middle of the boat. I attributed that to some of the problem, but current could also have impacted that tack as well.
__________________
GGT is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2015, 13:02   #14
Registered User

Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 66
Re: Wat's the Performance of the Lagoon 52 under Sail?

So, is the L52 still fun to sail when you're not racing another boat, or does it just feel like a dog? We are chartering one for three weeks in June and as much as I enjoy lounging on the boat at anchor in the afternoon and evening, I also like reasonably fun and exciting sails during the day. I could have also gone with a Catana or Saba, but figured the other families going down with us would prefer the extra space the L52 offers. I seriously doubt the rig will have anything larger than the standard genoa...

Thanks,

Matt
__________________
capnmatt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-02-2015, 05:10   #15
Registered User

Join Date: May 2012
Location: Turkey
Boat: Lagoon 380
Posts: 121
Re: Wat's the Performance of the Lagoon 52 under Sail?

Ratings list from Catamarans Cup i Greece, some based on dimensions from yards, other from measured boats.
All Multi2000 as used in France and Finland (!) ST = Square Top Main
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	BRatings_2014.jpg
Views:	247
Size:	82.3 KB
ID:	97078  
__________________

__________________
django37 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
lagoon, sail

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
42: TPI Lagoon 42 Sand crab Lagoon Catamarans 38 22-08-2015 14:49
NORVANE WINDVANE Performance / Reliability review kirkalittle Product or Service Reviews & Evaluations 19 30-01-2014 05:33
Help Me Fantasize About a New Sail Wardrobe Dockhead Deck hardware: Rigging, Sails & Hoisting 22 16-12-2011 11:04
For Sale: Lagoon 440 Private 2007 Huggi21 Classifieds Archive 3 06-11-2011 00:47
For Sale: Parasailor 2.0 (67sqm) - Brand New isolamia Classifieds Archive 1 12-08-2011 04:51



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 00:25.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.