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Old 25-04-2013, 10:53   #31
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Re: Through Hull Warning!!

I should have been more clear... it's the Marelon seacocks that I wouldnt use. The thru hulls are tough as heck!
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Old 25-04-2013, 12:14   #32
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Re: Through Hull Warning!!

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I should have been more clear... it's the Marelon seacocks that I wouldnt use. The thru hulls are tough as heck!
Another one who didn't see the MainSail Youtube channel
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Old 25-04-2013, 12:19   #33
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Re: Through Hull Warning!!

I don't have Marelon through-hulls, but I wonder if those pull-tests would have gone slightly different had it been installed with bedding and not just threaded through a hole.

With that said, I'm going the titanium-route in the future.
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Old 25-04-2013, 13:01   #34
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Re: Through Hull Warning!!

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Originally Posted by Caracal View Post
I don't have Marelon through-hulls, but I wonder if those pull-tests would have gone slightly different had it been installed with bedding and not just threaded through a hole.

With that said, I'm going the titanium-route in the future.
Bedding just seals the hole from water ingress. It does not provide strength. In this test it was the threaded shaft that just sheared from vertical pull. Scary.
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Old 25-04-2013, 13:30   #35
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Re: Through Hull Warning!!

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Bedding just seals the hole from water ingress. It does not provide strength. In this test it was the threaded shaft that just sheared from vertical pull. Scary.
Proper bedding (i.e. not silicone) will not necessarily add strength, but it will help spread point loading/stress.
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Old 25-04-2013, 15:48   #36
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Re: Through Hull Warning!!

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Proper bedding (i.e. not silicone) will not necessarily add strength, but it will help spread point loading/stress.
Yes it will, and if the mushroom head would have been ripped off, like I expected it to be, then you would have a point. But in this case it is the pipe section that is just teared apart. No bedding compound will prevent this failure.

I don't say you must believe these tests. May be MainSail just photoshopped it or something, and they are not mine to begin with... but I know MainSail a bit from CF and this he is the man with these clips and his how-to's on his website
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Old 25-04-2013, 16:02   #37
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Re: Through Hull Warning!!

To me, the break looks like it is broken because of point pressure, hence me saying it might be a bit different with proper bedding.
Notice how the ring at the bottom, along with the thread-tube slides to the right, way before it breaks, and then it breaks at exactly the place of where the edge of the plywood is. And afterwards, how the threaded part has destroyed the edge of the plywood.


Whether or not you know Maine Sail has absolutely no bearing on anything, and your "suggestion" about me arguing about photoshopping is utterly ridiculous. If you have to go to such lengths to defend a position, I can't be bothered listening to you.
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Old 25-04-2013, 16:07   #38
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Re: Through Hull Warning!!

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To me, the break looks like it is broken because of point pressure, hence me saying it might be a bit different with proper bedding.
Notice how the ring at the bottom, along with the thread-tube slides to the right, way before it breaks, and then it breaks at exactly the place of where the edge of the plywood is. And afterwards, how the threaded part has destroyed the edge of the plywood.


Whether or not you know Maine Sail has absolutely no bearing on anything, and your "suggestion" about me arguing about photoshopping is utterly ridiculous. If you have to go to such lengths to defend a position, I can't be bothered listening to you.
Don't, then. Its your vessel.
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Old 25-04-2013, 16:14   #39
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Re: Through Hull Warning!!

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Don't, then. Its your vessel.
Yes, nothing like adults acting like four-year-olds, instead of watching the video and see what is actually going on - even after it has been explained to them.

I'm glad you saved me the time and offered to make it clear to me in which group you belong.
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Old 25-04-2013, 16:16   #40
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Re: Through Hull Warning!!

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If you have to go to such lengths to defend a position, I can't be bothered listening to you.
Sure, what you have is better. It is the regular argument on CF. But I'll surprise you: I still have some Marelon. The difference is that I will replace it and you not.
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Old 25-04-2013, 16:20   #41
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Re: Through Hull Warning!!

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Sure, what you have is better.
Yes, actually, a real argument, rather than a misplaced argument from authority (i.e. "I know him, therefore he must be right"), and the strawman (i.e. "You're suggesting it is photoshopped, and since that is ridiculous, I must be right"). So, yes, a real argument is better than stooping to such levels to pretend you're right.

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It is the regular argument on CF. But I'll surprise you: I still have some Marelon. The difference is that I will replace it and you not.
You made my point excellently.
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Old 25-04-2013, 16:41   #42
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Re: Through Hull Warning!!

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Originally Posted by Caracal View Post
I don't have Marelon through-hulls, but I wonder if those pull-tests would have gone slightly different had it been installed with bedding and not just threaded through a hole.

With that said, I'm going the titanium-route in the future.
I can assure you bedding these would have made little to no difference in regards to these meeting the minimum ABYC strength standards.. I have snapped more than a few of these off when doing change outs and they barely took anywhere near 200 pounds to snap off when mounted in a hull and been subjected to moisture, even with bedding material in place..

The Same exact scenario in bronze handles DOUBLE what the Marelon thru-hull/valve combo did but in 3/4" still fails at 100 pounds below ABYC standards.. A 3/4" Marelon thru-hull mated to a 3/4" Marelon ball valve fails at 300 pounds less than ABYC standards specify for. I also pulled well below the point the ABYC specifies you pull at which is the innermost hard piping. This would have caused it to fail at an even lower number. I know this because I tested it.. IIRC it was somewhere around 170 pounds.

Contrast a Marelon valve slapped onto a thru-hull to the 3/4" Marelon OEM/93 series and it passes the same test with flying colors and exceeds 700 pounds of pull. The difference is in the flange, construction, design and the thru-hull fitting, which is about twice as thick as the normal Marelon NPS thru-hull....

Perhaps someone can explain how a marine sealant would have helped the miserable performance of this Marelon 3/4" valve....??

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Old 25-04-2013, 17:13   #43
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Re: Through Hull Warning!!

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Or titanium through-hulls with marelon seacocks?
Bit of thread drift, but it is better with monos to install those cockpit drain valves, crossing if you can. i.e. port side drain exits on starboard side of hull. Its allows better fall and limits the ingress of water on extreme heel angles i.e. not like this drawing
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Old 25-04-2013, 18:11   #44
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Re: Through Hull Warning!!

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I can assure you bedding these would have made little to no difference in regards to these meeting the minimum ABYC strength standards.. Yadda, yadda, yadda
I'm sorry, I don't take your "assurance" to heart after watching your embedded video in this thread. It's obvious that noone would install it without bedding, and very few with those sharp edges - at least in combination. Also, I have a problem with using soft builder's plywood for this.

I guess they cheat when they get their stuff approved and then subsequently lie. I also guess that you won't be doing the same test with it properly bedded and in something a bit more substantial (i.e. a proper installation).


Edit: I think I need to explain: You make a test - a test I find flawed for various reasons, and when these things are pointed out to you, I need to rely on your "assurance". That assurance is simply not worth anything.
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Old 25-04-2013, 18:13   #45
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Re: Through Hull Warning!!

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Bit of thread drift, but it is better with monos to install those cockpit drain valves, crossing if you can. i.e. port side drain exits on starboard side of hull. Its allows better fall and limits the ingress of water on extreme heel angles i.e. not like this drawing
To be fair, the pic only shows a single cockpit drain, and as it is shown in profile, how can you tell it's not crossed?

But, yeah, they should have shown it from the stern instead.
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