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Old 26-09-2017, 11:48   #1
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Things I don't like on the 450, is it just me ? - Comments

Lots of discussion on the good things about 450's here, but I'd like to raise a couple of things I DON'T like, see if anyone else has similar problems or if its just me, and see if any options to resolve.


HELM INSTRUMENTS

First off - Helm Instrument panel, located behind the Steering wheel. Especially the Chart plotter. This bugs the crap out of me.

I find this really very annoying to use, and actually very unsafe to either reach through the wheel, or clumsily over it, to drive the plotter and other instruments.

The Small displays are mostly fine, as they are generally set for a mode for what I'm doing (Sailing or Anchoring, I have custom displays made up for each activity now)

The Windlass remote control, and the Auto Pilot remote could also be better located.

The Chart plotter on the other hand, is just cumbersome and frankly dangerous to use when underway, especially if the Autopilot is work in a moderate to rough sea.

Has anyone with a 450F considered moving theirs, or having similar issues / concerns ?

This is probably my biggest issue.

Note I have Raymarine E120W displays. (Though their days may be numbered !)
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Old 26-09-2017, 11:53   #2
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Re: Things I don't like on the 450, is it just me ? - Comments

Engine controls

I'm finding the Engine controls are very easy to knock , or catch lines on.

- The downhaul keeps hooking around/between the controls when raising the main.
- Other lines occasional hook over them, generally at inconvenient times (such as raising or dropping the main).
- They are VERY easy to knock when using the main winch on stbd side.

Note: I have the electronic controls, not the cable ones.
Wouldn't they be better to the Left of the Helm maybe ?

Is it just me and lack of experience, or do others have similar problems ?
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Old 26-09-2017, 12:11   #3
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Re: Things I don't like on the 450, is it just me ? - Comments

Well, I dunno; but I do know a lot of people who'd give anything to be having your present difficulties.
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Old 26-09-2017, 17:47   #4
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Re: Things I don't like on the 450, is it just me ? - Comments

I totally agree with you on the chart plotter we will be getting a small runabout steering wheel to quickly replace on long trips .all you need to do is remove the friction knob then undo the wheel nut and remove the large wheel .we will then fit the small wheel,.this is only used when on auto pilot


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Old 26-09-2017, 17:51   #5
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Re: Things I don't like on the 450, is it just me ? - Comments

As far as the down haul line we swapped it to the port side and fitted a v cleat to lock it off .this way my wife is on the other side out of my way as i drop the mainsail works brillantlyClick image for larger version

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Old 26-09-2017, 17:56   #6
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Re: Things I don't like on the 450, is it just me ? - Comments

On the windlass we easily fitted a wire less remote control which is clipped onto a lanard which i have around my neck so i can control the windlass anywhere on the boatClick image for larger version

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Old 27-09-2017, 08:01   #7
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Re: Things I don't like on the 450, is it just me ? - Comments

Here is my list based on spending time on a 450S just after a week long charter on a Nautitech Open 46:

1. Cockpit setup, felt small and not well laid out compared to the Nautitech.
2. Galley is not well laid out with things like sink placement and overall size. Galley in the Nautitech was actually more workable.
3. Engine room access was very poor for me, much better in the Nautitech.
4. Lack of skylights and ventilation in the main cabin.
5. Cabin top and mast access. Very scary working at the mast with the sloping cabin top, big drop, and no guard rail.
6. Lack of leg room at the helm and not great in terms of hands on the wheel steering when not standing.
7. Lack of a self tacking blade, which worked very well on the Nautitech.
8. Nav station set up is just odd, doesn't really work
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Old 27-09-2017, 12:12   #8
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Re: Things I don't like on the 450, is it just me ? - Comments

Quote:
Originally Posted by iliohale View Post
Here is my list based on spending time on a 450S just after a week long charter on a Nautitech Open 46:

1. Cockpit setup, felt small and not well laid out compared to the Nautitech.
2. Galley is not well laid out with things like sink placement and overall size. Galley in the Nautitech was actually more workable.
3. Engine room access was very poor for me, much better in the Nautitech.
4. Lack of skylights and ventilation in the main cabin.
5. Cabin top and mast access. Very scary working at the mast with the sloping cabin top, big drop, and no guard rail.
6. Lack of leg room at the helm and not great in terms of hands on the wheel steering when not standing.
7. Lack of a self tacking blade, which worked very well on the Nautitech.
8. Nav station set up is just odd, doesn't really work
Thanks for your comments.

Have to say #1, 2, 5, 6, 7 8 not a drama for me and not something in consideration for our boat as an issue.

#3 could be better I agree, as need to move a lifeline to open engine bay, #4 would be nice, like the new Hellia 44's for example. Wouldn't be too hard to add.

Nautitech had many other things we didn't like in comparison so was discounted when we purchased, but helm was the killer.
As far as I'm concerned, helm at the back is a non-starter for us for an ocean boat, and flybridge was wanted in the end.

Anyway, Just for reference, it wasn't my intention to start a boat comparison thread, but one on how others have resolved a couple of what i see as the 450F's less salient points that could use improving. (ALL boats have issues and comprimises).

Regards

Mark.
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Old 27-09-2017, 16:21   #9
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Re: Things I don't like on the 450, is it just me ? - Comments

Awesome thread we got going on here.
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Old 28-09-2017, 12:52   #10
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Re: Things I don't like on the 450, is it just me ? - Comments

Wow, indeed most folks would love to have these 'issues'! We all know that no boat is perfect. Wouldn't this be a better thread if suggestions were made for improvements!?

Any many of these are an over exaggeration!
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Old 28-09-2017, 13:12   #11
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Re: Things I don't like on the 450, is it just me ? - Comments

Quote:
Originally Posted by Emerald Sea View Post
Wow, indeed most folks would love to have these 'issues'! We all know that no boat is perfect. Wouldn't this be a better thread if suggestions were made for improvements!?

Any many of these are an over exaggeration!
I may not of titled/phrased it correctly in initial posts. Suggestions is what I was after.

Agree all boats have issues. What I was looking for was
A: Do other 450 owners have these concerns, or am I out to lunch
B: If they do, suggestions for improvements ?

I was a tad annoyed when I posted at the plotter issue after the either wheel bit me once too often, or I missed clicked things due to position during recent use when trying to view AIS targets, or change tracks / waypoints at the helm.

Note: I'm a beliver in "Underway Navigation is done at the Helm", so the one downstairs dosn't help in this regard.

To harsh ? maybe. first world problem ? definitely. Still love our 450F, just want to make it better.


I'm seriously thinking of moving the plotter to some sort of pod next to the helm rather than current location, and adding in a couple more instrument displays in its place and a bino holder !.

Regards

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Old 28-09-2017, 13:58   #12
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Re: Things I don't like on the 450, is it just me ? - Comments

Quote:
Originally Posted by Catapault View Post
I was a tad annoyed when I posted at the plotter issue after the either wheel bit me once too often, or I missed clicked things due to position during recent use when trying to view AIS targets, or change tracks / waypoints at the helm.



.

Yeah, my hand gets knocked off the controls if I try to put them thru the spinning spoked helm too. So I standup and reach around. That doesn't seem so difficult!

Here's a real world issue with the 450. Water drainage on the flybridge floor - when sailing in the rain. The slight list doesn't allow one side to drain. Let me know if you come up with a drain solution for this?

(I just posted this one)....Water that enters the genset blower vent that eventually kills the blower motor. Make sure you have a belly in the intake hose and/or a small drain hole. Or just tape it off when passaging (as we do).

There are many more. Owners, as with any boat, usually make improvements or just live with a minor inconvenience. Keeping a boat such as a 450 at 100% is almost a full time job if your a sailing liveabaord.
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Old 29-09-2017, 05:52   #13
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Re: Things I don't like on the 450, is it just me ? - Comments

Thing I don't like is that I don't have one
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