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Old 23-06-2015, 17:01   #1
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Snagging list and build quality new Lagoon 400

Have been considering a new Lagoon 400 for some time and am now nearly ready to place an order (the current GBP EUR exchange rate has helped!). Having reviewed many of the posts on this forum about snagging lists and problems with new Lagoon's I do wonder whether i'll be spending more time sorting out problems with the boat than I will be enjoying using it. I plan to buy the L400 with comfort package and get electronics and webasto heating fitted in the UK after delivery.

I'm lucky to have a Lagoon dealer who has had very good feedback from a number of users on the forum - Ancasta near Southampton (UK). But even so I have a young family and don't really have a lot of time spend sorting out problems - part of the reason why I'm looking to buy new.

I accept a Lagoon is a Toyota and not a Mercedes and don't expect ownership to be trouble-free - but one can get the impression sometimes from reading these forums that it's not worth the hassle.

Wondering if anyone can offer me some thoughts on their experience with managing snagging lists and how frequently problems arise through ownership of a Lagoon - is it worth the investment?

Many thanks

CartMan
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Old 23-06-2015, 17:38   #2
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Re: Snagging list and build quality new Lagoon 400

Don't have your answer but curious... what is a "snagging list"? A list of items to be corrected?
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Old 23-06-2015, 18:02   #3
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Re: Snagging list and build quality new Lagoon 400

sounds like a punch list.
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Old 23-06-2015, 18:02   #4
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Re: Snagging list and build quality new Lagoon 400

[Q UOTE=Cheechako;1854333]Don't have your answer but curious... what is a "snagging list"? A list of items to be corrected?[/QUOTE]

Yep.

Cartman, we have picked up 2 new Lagoons from Les Sables. We didn't use Ancasta but my brief experience with Ancasta at Les Sables was that they do indeed provide an excellent handover service and are genuinely interested in making the whole handover go as smoothly as possible for the new owners. Also they have excellent delivery crews available for the trip North if headed to the UK. As far as defects, we found Lagoons handover representative Oliver to be top notch and eager to sort out any issues.
Depending on whether you will be taking delivery in les sables or in the UK will effect things but I'm sure Ancasta will be helpful either way.
For us, taking delivery in Les Sables our approach was to allow enough time to sort out any issues and not be rushed to depart the dock till all is taken care of. We did have a few minor issues and all except one were taken care of promptly by Oliver and JC. The other was a pain in the ass and not resolved well by Lagoon. You can read a brief summary in my review thread.
All in all, so long as you have realistic expectations there's no reason not to go ahead with a new Lagoon purchase.
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Old 23-06-2015, 23:22   #5
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Re: Snagging list and build quality new Lagoon 400

There is nothing special about the 'fix' list of a new L400 as compared to any other factory line boat (e.g. Bavaria, Beneteau etc.)
In other words, any standard boat you you will buy will have problems to fix. So if you fill fine with the general solution an L400 provides for you needs - go ahead.
I see a lot of boats (new and used) and a hassle free new boat is a very rare thing...
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Old 23-06-2015, 23:26   #6
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Re: Snagging list and build quality new Lagoon 400

And, what both you and Monte mentioned is very important - good agent to represent and help you in warranty matters.
I had such help which saved me lot of money when an Yanmar engine overheated (and had its head removed) at the end of its warranty.
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Old 24-06-2015, 02:00   #7
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Re: Snagging list and build quality new Lagoon 400

i own 10 months, bought near new after delivered in AUS.

You better like maintenance and be good at it or have tons of money, especially if you live in one of these bubbly super expensive cities.

Had no issues so far really, but my expenditure goes at rate 10% of value of the boat.

In a middle of replacing all rubber pipes on yanmars - 2 years regular service item. Not an easy task -first time at least.

However, on my surprise, I enjoy the process.

Use it as weekender : sail 60%, maintain 40% of time.
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Old 24-06-2015, 03:18   #8
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Re: Snagging list and build quality new Lagoon 400

Quote:
Originally Posted by arsenelupiga View Post
i own 10 months, bought near new after delivered in AUS.

You better like maintenance and be good at it or have tons of money, especially if you live in one of these bubbly super expensive cities.

Had no issues so far really, but my expenditure goes at rate 10% of value of the boat.

In a middle of replacing all rubber pipes on yanmars - 2 years regular service item. Not an easy task -first time at least.

However, on my surprise, I enjoy the process.

Use it as weekender : sail 60%, maintain 40% of time.
I was working on annual running costs (including mooring fees/insurance/maintenance) to be about 10-15k/year for a new boat. Most of this is mooring fees and insurance (10k) with just 5k/year for maintenance on a new boat but perhaps this is unrealistic.
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Old 24-06-2015, 04:14   #9
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Re: Snagging list and build quality new Lagoon 400

Quote:
Originally Posted by CartMan View Post
I was working on annual running costs (including mooring fees/insurance/maintenance) to be about 10-15k/year for a new boat. Most of this is mooring fees and insurance (10k) with just 5k/year for maintenance on a new boat but perhaps this is unrealistic.
you will want to equip boat to your liking, so expect to double or triple first year. For me biggest expense carbon gennaker&lines upgrade & mast climbing equipment. Basic antifouling here costs AUD 9000 which is around 5-6000 pounds. But should last 1.5 years or so.

Diesels regular service parts, I have gone in trouble getting them. Currently spent around 4,000 aud. That should do for 2 years, I hope, but all work myself. Safery issue too.

Changed impellers by myself, which was good, as I found faulty one at 400 hrs that can cause cooling channels to block which is real bad been told.

Anyway, I plan to be in for long haul that is why such an approach.
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Old 24-06-2015, 04:16   #10
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Re: Snagging list and build quality new Lagoon 400

Cartman,

I have put some big lists on the forums about my L450 works. However I think anyone could simply buy and sail away ok, for the most part, without doing anything. Most of the works listed here are improvements, additions, and later discussions about on going maintenance. Yes all production yachts will have issues. I think the consistent theme is that Lagoon owners love their Lagoon.

One suggestion I have re the Webasto (we have Eberspacher - basically same) is maybe do the factory fit if not a signifiant price difference. When I look at the installation including pipe runs through hard to access locations I would say a nightmare post factory? PS, yes that needed work to improve the fan airflows to heat better, but wonderful in winter :-)

Cheers, Dave


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Old 24-06-2015, 04:43   #11
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Snagging list and build quality new Lagoon 400

Problem is there aren't really any sailboats that can be compared to Toyotas which generally are inexpensive compared to many cars, and quite low maintenance, reliable and durable.

In the boat market there are plenty of bentleys, rolls royces. The mid new market probably has a lot of Lexus type as well.
For lower end of new boat market I think you really are stuck in the 1980s of inexpensive cars- others can throw out the brands- but cheap, somewhat unreliable, high maintenance cars.


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Old 24-06-2015, 05:10   #12
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Re: Snagging list and build quality new Lagoon 400

Cartman, 5000 is more then enough. We have owned ours for over a year and spent well under 1000 on maintaining it to date and next year should be similar, including new bottom paint.
A lot of people recommend calculating the ten year maintainance costs. Including new rigging, new sails, engines, electronics etc and dividing by 10 to come up with the maintainance figure per year. Somehow they often come up with ridiculous percentages like 10% of the boat cost. I recommend allowing a reasonable figure (1000-2000) and selling/upgrading before replacements are due. I don't include mooring or insurance as maintainance. These are running costs. I also don't include upgrades. Maintainance to me is keeping the boat and equipment in as close to new condition as possible. Costs to you might be more than mine if you don't clean the boat and hull yourself.
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Old 24-06-2015, 05:13   #13
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Re: Snagging list and build quality new Lagoon 400

Quote:
Originally Posted by arsenelupiga View Post
Basic antifouling here costs AUD 9000 which is around 5-6000 pounds. .........

Diesels regular service parts, ....... Currently spent around 4,000 aud. That should do for 2 years, I hope, but all work myself.
Antifouling at $9,000 ? $4,000 for regular service parts for 2 years on a near new boat?

Where do these figures come from? They both seem excessive. Also, the antifould should last more than 1.5 years.
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Old 24-06-2015, 05:36   #14
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Re: Snagging list and build quality new Lagoon 400

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Antifouling at $9,000 ? $4,000 for regular service parts for 2 years on a near new boat?

Where do these figures come from? They both seem excessive. Also, the antifould should last more than 1.5 years.
Antifoul are freah quotes from sydney harbour shipyards. Include complete bottom maintenance, hi quality antifoul, props, saildrives. Top expense haul out and back in close to 3k.

4k, 2k per engine - oil and filter, saildrive oil,coolant replacement, replace mixing elbow, replace all rubberized hoses water and fuel (every 2 years), impellers, seals here and there, spare saildrive seals, and adds up.

Also included tools to perform these tasks.
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Old 24-06-2015, 06:19   #15
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Re: Snagging list and build quality new Lagoon 400

Wow you just talked me out of moving our L380 down to Sydney to do any work on it.

Last haul out 2 years ago had antifoul done with Micron 66, new seals to sail drives, replaced ball valves & oil to sail drives, 2 days labour of guy helping me buff, hard stand for a week while waiting for sail drive shafts to be filled where seals had worn, a second hand prop to replace one with worn rubber hub ..... All for AUD$6,800 up here in Cardwell, North Queensland.

Plus we got to do as much as we wanted & stay on board & use their showers & toilets. They gave us a security key to get in & out.

City prices are ridiculous by the sounds.

Dave


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