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Old 29-04-2016, 08:37   #16
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Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Caribbean
Boat: Lagoon 450
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Re: Service batteries and mastervolt

For the LiFe batteries did you need to upgrade chargings systems from Mains, and Engines and solar?
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Old 29-04-2016, 18:05   #17
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Location: Melbourne Australia
Boat: Lagoon 400
Posts: 327
Re: Service batteries and mastervolt

Quote:
Originally Posted by tuskie View Post
It seems that the electrical panel commonly reads voltage a bit lower than a battery monitor. I assumed it is due to voltage drop between house battery bank and the panel. The monitor, on the other hand reads at the shunt, which is much closer and has larger cabling.

My L400 came with Mastervolt gels (4 140AH ). Strange how some Lagoons come with Exide and some with Mastervolt gel batteries . One of these suffered an internal short that caused it to become dangerously overheated after only 4 years. I am glad to be rid of them and have installed 400 AH of LiFePO4 for a great increase in capacity as well as reduced weight.
Hello Tuskie, most interested in your upgrade, do you have 400 AH in total, and how many batteries have you installed. I am assuming you have the new lithium, if you do was there much of a hassle setting the correct charging rate.
Regards Peter
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Old 30-04-2016, 07:52   #18
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Re: Service batteries and mastervolt

Quote:
Originally Posted by peterp View Post
Hello Tuskie, most interested in your upgrade, do you have 400 AH in total, and how many batteries have you installed. I am assuming you have the new lithium, if you do was there much of a hassle setting the correct charging rate.
Regards Peter
I installed the Lithiums with great assstance from "Dod42", a neighbour and great bloke, even if he owns a Fountaine Pajot. The topic of Lithim batteries on yachts is well covered on this forum if youve got a month to read it.

The 400AH bank, are Winston LiFePO4 in a 2S4P bank of 8 X 200AH cells. These were supplied with connectors and strapped from Trevor at Kuttabul. He can explain why this configuration. This gives as much useable AH as over twice the capacity in lead acid.

Basicly Natural

The bank is protected from low and high voltages, as well as internal imbalances by a Battery Management System. This was sourced from the US.

CleanPowerAuto LLC – Lithium Battery Management Systems

This BMS shouldn't be confused with a Battery Monitor, sometimes also referred to as a BMS. (Confused? I am!) This monitor is also required. It needs to be reprogrammed for Lithium and my Victron model has a programmable relay that i use to shut off charging from my alterators when bank voltage reaches 14 volts.

This brings us to the biggest hitch when changing over to Lithiums; making sure the charging systems are compatible with the different requirements of these new batteries. On my Lagoon this wasnt a big issue. My solar MPPT regulators are programmable, so no worries there. The Cristec battery chargers that were standard on the L400 have a suitable setting for Lithiums, 13.9 v, setting#5, if i remember correctly. The only problems are the engine alternators that can overcharge. This is where the Victron monior controlled relay is used to shut off the input when 14 volts is reached. When this happens, voltage is sill accepted from the alternators to the engine start batteries, so no voltage spike.

I can post some photos when i return to the boat after a brief stint away, but there's not much to see. Hope this info helps, but much depends on the individual boat and the type of chargers, regulators, etc. fitted. Cost is effecive when compared with a larger lead acid bank, especially if life span is factored in.
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Old 30-04-2016, 16:56   #19
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Location: Channel Islands, CA
Boat: Lagoon 400 S2
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Re: Service batteries and mastervolt

Quote:
Originally Posted by tuskie View Post

The bank is protected from low and high voltages, as well as internal imbalances by a Battery Management System. This was sourced from the US.

CleanPowerAuto LLC Lithium Battery Management Systems

This BMS shouldn't be confused with a Battery Monitor, sometimes also referred to as a BMS. (Confused? I am!) This monitor is also required. It needs to be reprogrammed for Lithium and my Victron model has a programmable relay that i use to shut off charging from my alterators when bank voltage reaches 14 volts.
Super helpful info, thanks for the detail.

Can you let us know:

1) Which Victron monitor/equipment you are using? And which relay from them?

2) Which BMS parts you used from CPA? And did you build an enclosure?

Thanks
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Old 30-04-2016, 17:14   #20
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Location: Melbourne Australia
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Re: Service batteries and mastervolt

Quote:
Originally Posted by tuskie View Post
I installed the Lithiums with great assstance from "Dod42", a neighbour and great bloke, even if he owns a Fountaine Pajot. The topic of Lithim batteries on yachts is well covered on this forum if youve got a month to read it.

The 400AH bank, are Winston LiFePO4 in a 2S4P bank of 8 X 200AH cells. These were supplied with connectors and strapped from Trevor at Kuttabul. He can explain why this configuration. This gives as much useable AH as over twice the capacity in lead acid.

Basicly Natural

The bank is protected from low and high voltages, as well as internal imbalances by a Battery Management System. This was sourced from the US.

CleanPowerAuto LLC Lithium Battery Management Systems

This BMS shouldn't be confused with a Battery Monitor, sometimes also referred to as a BMS. (Confused? I am!) This monitor is also required. It needs to be reprogrammed for Lithium and my Victron model has a programmable relay that i use to shut off charging from my alterators when bank voltage reaches 14 volts.

This brings us to the biggest hitch when changing over to Lithiums; making sure the charging systems are compatible with the different requirements of these new batteries. On my Lagoon this wasnt a big issue. My solar MPPT regulators are programmable, so no worries there. The Cristec battery chargers that were standard on the L400 have a suitable setting for Lithiums, 13.9 v, setting#5, if i remember correctly. The only problems are the engine alternators that can overcharge. This is where the Victron monior controlled relay is used to shut off the input when 14 volts is reached. When this happens, voltage is sill accepted from the alternators to the engine start batteries, so no voltage spike.

I can post some photos when i return to the boat after a brief stint away, but there's not much to see. Hope this info helps, but much depends on the individual boat and the type of chargers, regulators, etc. fitted. Cost is effecive when compared with a larger lead acid bank, especially if life span is factored in.
Well Done Tuskie, most impressed looks like you have every thing covered nicely, particularly the alternator charge being cut off at 14v but still charging the engine batteries. I get my new boring Gel batteries next week.
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Old 30-04-2016, 17:42   #21
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Re: Service batteries and mastervolt

Quote:
Originally Posted by peterp View Post
I get my new boring Gel batteries next week.
Sometimes with boats, simple and boring is good.
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Old 30-04-2016, 18:07   #22
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Re: Service batteries and mastervolt

Quote:
Originally Posted by Whomda View Post
Super helpful info, thanks for the detail.

Can you let us know:

1) Which Victron monitor/equipment you are using? And which relay from them?

2) Which BMS parts you used from CPA? And did you build an enclosure?

Thanks
I already had a Victron BMS700, but other monitors with a relay on/off function would be fine. I installed 2" contactors", a type of big delay switch capable of handling large amperage. One is controlled by the Victron to shut off high voltage from alternators. The other is controlled by the BMS to cut off bank to protect from too low voltage from over drawdown. The BMS also has an alarm function that sounds to warn of high or low voltage before shutting off. This is all explained in their blurb on their website.

I installed the miniBMS modules connected to a Housepower BMS board. You need to run wires ( thin, electonic type ) between them and install the board in a little junction box to keep dry if someone wets the bed or leaves a hatch open.

I wouldn't recommend DIY for all this wiring unless you are confident in abilities or a bit stupid. ( latter, me) Then again, I found it difficult to find an electrician who was familiar with this subject and wasn't talking silly prices. Cheers.
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Old 01-05-2016, 01:24   #23
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Re: Service batteries and mastervolt

Quote:
Originally Posted by tuskie View Post
I already had a Victron BMS700, but other monitors with a relay on/off function would be fine. I installed 2" contactors", a type of big delay switch capable of handling large amperage. One is controlled by the Victron to shut off high voltage from alternators. The other is controlled by the BMS to cut off bank to protect from too low voltage from over drawdown. The BMS also has an alarm function that sounds to warn of high or low voltage before shutting off. This is all explained in their blurb on their website.

I installed the miniBMS modules connected to a Housepower BMS board. You need to run wires ( thin, electonic type ) between them and install the board in a little junction box to keep dry if someone wets the bed or leaves a hatch open.

I wouldn't recommend DIY for all this wiring unless you are confident in abilities or a bit stupid. ( latter, me) Then again, I found it difficult to find an electrician who was familiar with this subject and wasn't talking silly prices. Cheers.
most impressive undertaking !

Can only imagine crash course you had to go thru to familiarize yourself with latest stuff in batteries.

so far my exide 4x120 work fine. I will probably follow your path because cannot nicely balance the boat due to batteries unless I add 0.5 T of ballast which i will not do. See how boat lower at back.
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