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Old 19-05-2016, 02:38   #31
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Re: Seawater in the bilge

Lagoon 39 has sail drives, so it is not going to be coming in from the shaft. If it is then for god's sack stop running the engine as you will be ruining the gear box. If you are worried check the gear box oil, usually a red oil dip stip on the top of the sail drive.

Yes the engine bays are water tight, but there should be a hose that lets any water out from there with a sea cock on it. Check to see if this is leaking.

Remove all the water from the bilge and put paper towels around every sea cock and water drain hole etc etc... take the boat out and find out where the water is coming from.

It sounds like a leaking sea cock that only leaks when you have the added pressure of water from the boat moving.

This needs to be sorted out. Also bear in mind that whilst the bilge pump may suck all the water out, over time the water left in the pipe will come back down into the bilge, so get this out with a sponge.

Find the leak, and if in doubt get in a professional, as the last thing you want to be doing is sailing with a sea water leak, no matter how slow, if there is an issue it will only get worse and 9 times out of 10 these things get worse when you least want it, ie in a storm etc....

Happy hunting.

The only other question, do you have a water maker?? Or generator?? Both of these will be bringing salt water into the boat and if they have any leaking pipes this could be the cause. The other easy check is the impeller housing on the engines, these can often leak and are an easy fix, the seals at the back of the impeller ware over time and can fail, this will only let water in whilst in use, so could explain the issue.

One last thought to check is the raw water filter on the engine intake, the lids on these often crack and again can let in water whilst motoring.
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Old 19-05-2016, 04:46   #32
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Re: Seawater in the bilge

Hi,

check the muffler (especially if it is a plastic one) while the engine is running for a few minutes. The exhaust is cooled with seawater and there can be a leak (happened to me once).
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Old 19-05-2016, 12:26   #33
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Re: Seawater in the bilge

Do you have a centrifugal bilge pump in that bilge? If you do, the discharge of the pump may be close enough to the water line that when sailing water splashes into the discharge hose and runs down the hose to the bilge. The discharge hose should go up in a loop before going out the boat.
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Old 19-05-2016, 14:28   #34
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Re: Seawater in the bilge

Americansurveyor - The owner's manual refers to Rule 2000 bilge pump but neither one on the boat has any marks as typically found on Rule models so I'm skeptical. They are similar in shape and diameter of the Rule models and specifically the 2000 model. This gives me the impression they are centrifugal. In regards to a loop, the section of hose that is visible is straight with a slight incline from the bilge once it clears the lip.

I've dried the bilge completely and placed dry paper towels around two seacocks that have what seems to me a lot of rust around the base. I've closed both seacocks but very small seepage appears to be occurring around the base of the engine seacock. In comparision to the other observed seacocks none have this rust. One seacock is the water intake for the starboard engine. Still trying to identify the purpose of the second seacock as it is not labeled.
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Old 19-05-2016, 14:54   #35
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Re: Seawater in the bilge

Update to status of seawater leak - what was thought to be seacocks are instead front/aft compartment outlet valve in each hull. A hose transports water from forward and aft sections by way of hose to bilge. There is a valve near the end of this hose just above the bilge box. The fittings that hold this hose in place appear to have significant rust on the underside and edges and there is a very slight water seep at the base which is difficult to understand as this is not a through hull fitting - possible the valve is leaking and allowing water to run down the side to reach the bottom?

Both the shower drain pump and hull sump are located in the bilge box, as is a manual bilge pump. I was able to locate a bilge pump label that identifies the pumps as Rule 2000.

Both hulls have similar equipment, outlets, pumps and bilge box. The starboard side is the one experiencing seawater in the bilge. And yes I've confirmed it is seawater by tasting it. Not a pleasant experience.
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Old 19-05-2016, 15:05   #36
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Re: Seawater in the bilge

I'm sorry! I think you need to hire someone. Grats for being concerned but hire someone.
I went back to read the posts. You may have a PhD but not in this.

Not being crass but maybe sincere.
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Old 19-05-2016, 15:11   #37
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Re: Seawater in the bilge

Quote:
Originally Posted by Two Drifters View Post
Lagoon 39 has sail drives, so it is not going to be coming in from the shaft. If it is then for god's sack stop running the engine as you will be ruining the gear box. If you are worried check the gear box oil, usually a red oil dip stip on the top of the sail drive.

Yes the engine bays are water tight, but there should be a hose that lets any water out from there with a sea cock on it. Check to see if this is leaking.

Remove all the water from the bilge and put paper towels around every sea cock and water drain hole etc etc... take the boat out and find out where the water is coming from.

It sounds like a leaking sea cock that only leaks when you have the added pressure of water from the boat moving.

This needs to be sorted out. Also bear in mind that whilst the bilge pump may suck all the water out, over time the water left in the pipe will come back down into the bilge, so get this out with a sponge.

Find the leak, and if in doubt get in a professional, as the last thing you want to be doing is sailing with a sea water leak, no matter how slow, if there is an issue it will only get worse and 9 times out of 10 these things get worse when you least want it, ie in a storm etc....

Happy hunting.

The only other question, do you have a water maker?? Or generator?? Both of these will be bringing salt water into the boat and if they have any leaking pipes this could be the cause. The other easy check is the impeller housing on the engines, these can often leak and are an easy fix, the seals at the back of the impeller ware over time and can fail, this will only let water in whilst in use, so could explain the issue.

One last thought to check is the raw water filter on the engine intake, the lids on these often crack and again can let in water whilst motoring.
Two Drifters - . Thanks for the suggestions. Yes we have a water maker but it is in the hull that we are not having problems and we only run it while at anchor which again is when we do not experience the leak.

No generator. At the rear of each engine compartment and at the lowest point is a limber hole that leads ultimately to the bilge. No seacock. I've completely dried the bilge box and placed paper towels above the lip and around the fore and aft compartment hose valves. Waiting to see what develops.
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Old 19-05-2016, 15:27   #38
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Re: Seawater in the bilge

If you are convinced it is not coming from the engine or sail drive, then motor around for an hour or so. Go to the bilge with a piece of dry tissue or toilet paper. Somewhere there is a trickle of water coming into the bilge. It may not be visible, but the tissue will help you find it. Trace it back to the source and let us know what you find.
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Old 19-05-2016, 15:52   #39
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Re: Seawater in the bilge

"A hose transports water from forward and aft sections by way of hose to bilge. There is a valve near the end of this hose just above the bilge box. The fittings that hold this hose in place appear to have significant rust on the underside and edges and there is a very slight water seep at the base which is difficult to understand as this is not a through hull fitting - possible the valve is leaking and allowing water to run down the side to reach the bottom?"

The hoses are the drains from the engine compartment and Forward bulk head.

Are these valves on the end of the hoses that empty into the sump open or closed.

It is my belief that they should be normally open, you have only one bilge alarm and that is off the automatic pump in the sump area, if the forward and aft valves are closed you could have a leak in either end of the boat, the first you will now about it is when the forward or engine compartment are totally flooded. If bilge alarm goes off you can then isolate the fwd or aft compartment by closing the appropriate valve.
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Old 19-05-2016, 16:31   #40
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Re: Seawater in the bilge

Just did a short test by driving the boat around with a paper towel at each end of the fore and aft compartment drain hoses. The starboard aft compartment hose paper towel is soaked on the starboard drain valve. Also about 3 inches of seawater in bottom of bilge box - this is after 30 minutes of light motoring in somewhat rolling seas. The forward compartment hose valve is completely dry.

After removing the soaked paper towel, I could see a small bead of water seeping out beneath the aft compartment hose near the shut off valve. This seems to prove the seawater is coming from the aft section of the starboard hull.

This may fit with something my wife saw a couple weeks back. While mopping the engine room ( have I got a great wife or what, how many guys can say their wives mop the engine room on their boat? But I digress...she mentioned that she saw what appeared to be a significant amount of rust on the pan beneath the engine - possible the catch pan?
I didn't investigate, but now wondering if I should have. This same engine room had a small amount of seawater in the bottom which was not to the height to exit the limber hose and proceed down the aft compartment hose. So now I'm wondering if an earlier comment by a CF contributor may be onto something - possible a bad impeller or raw water intake filter?

Any comments or ideas? A contributor suggested I hire a professional, of which I'm not opposed in the least even having the boat hauled if necessary before we depart for Antiqua - however, as full time live-aboards cruising the Caribbean, a professional is not always close by and can come to the rescue, so in my mind's eye having a through understanding of the infrastructure of the boat and an acquired ability to make repairs when necessary is a good thing to develop. Having said the above, its beginning to look like a haulout and hiring a professional is in my future if its not the impeller or raw water filter.
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Old 19-05-2016, 16:35   #41
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Re: Seawater in the bilge

Both the aft and forward compartment hose valves are open in both hulls. They are exercised to ensure they move freely which they do.
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Old 19-05-2016, 16:38   #42
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Re: Seawater in the bilge

Quote:
Originally Posted by faa50 View Post
Just did a short test by driving the boat around with a paper towel at each end of the fore and aft compartment drain hoses. The starboard aft compartment hose paper towel is soaked on the starboard drain valve. Also about 3 inches of seawater in bottom of bilge box - this is after 30 minutes of light motoring in somewhat rolling seas. The forward compartment hose valve is completely dry.

After removing the soaked paper towel, I could see a small bead of water seeping out beneath the aft compartment hose near the shut off valve. This seems to prove the seawater is coming from the aft section of the starboard hull.

This may fit with something my wife saw a couple weeks back. While mopping the engine room ( have I got a great wife or what, how many guys can say their wives mop the engine room on their boat? But I digress...she mentioned that she saw what appeared to be a significant amount of rust on the pan beneath the engine - possible the catch pan?
I didn't investigate, but now wondering if I should have. This same engine room had a small amount of seawater in the bottom which was not to the height to exit the limber hose and proceed down the aft compartment hose. So now I'm wondering if an earlier comment by a CF contributor may be onto something - possible a bad impeller or raw water intake filter?

Any comments or ideas? A contributor suggested I hire a professional, of which I'm not opposed in the least even having the boat hauled if necessary before we depart for Antiqua - however, as full time live-aboards cruising the Caribbean, a professional is not always close by and can come to the rescue, so in my mind's eye having a through understanding of the infrastructure of the boat and an acquired ability to make repairs when necessary is a good thing to develop. Having said the above, its beginning to look like a haulout and hiring a professional is in my future if its not the impeller or raw water filter.
Dude, before hauling, you probably need it in the water to confirm where it's coming from. You have it seems narrowed it down to either an inlet fitting or an exhaust fitting. Keep narrowing it down. Hire the professional by all means when you narrow it down to the source. Which you have so far got to the aft seawater shut off. Fix that and move on.
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Old 19-05-2016, 16:42   #43
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Re: Seawater in the bilge

You are confusing things a little. On the one hand you have narrowed it down to not being the engine as it doesn't happen just by running the engine. You said it only happens when out sailing. And yet your still questioning if it could be the raw water pump or impeller.

Fix your focus on ruling out things it can't be and move on.
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Old 19-05-2016, 16:48   #44
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Re: Seawater in the bilge

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Thanks for all the comments.

I've run the two engines 3YM30 Yanmar's 30hp located in each hull about 110 hrs the past two months. Nearly half of this time is on a mooring or anchor. Both engine rooms show no water ingress, I've monitored this closely.

Since the boat is less than two years old, the seacocks should not be an issue to age, but this doesn't mean they may not be the culprit just thinking low probability. Although one seacock has a brownish stainline running from it to the bilge. Thinking this may be part of the problem. Someone earlier pointed out for me to look for this telltale sign.

I spoke with the Lagoon Dealer who sold us the boat and he was surprised to hear of us having this problem. He spoke with the owner of the Lagoon Dealership and he too was not familiar with what may be causing the problem.

I had said in an earlier post the water coming in average 3-4 inches above the bilge pump. That turns out to be an overstatement, I now believe it is more like 2-3 inches after the water fills the rectangle box the bilge pump resides in. So it is a relatively slow leak but persistent. And no it doesn't leak when the engines are running provided the boat is not moving through the water.

Its likely others have experienced a similar issue with this model and possible make of boat. We are sailing to Antigua then Grenada in the next week so I'd like to resolve this issue prior to departing.
On a lot of older Lagoon Cats all the thru hulls and seacocks were made of BRASS -not the sturdy bronze or Marelon. These were supposed to last only 5 years and Lagoon made a lot of blather about being in "CE" compliance. Many Lagoon owners bit the bullet and replaced them as they are truly junk. There used to be lots of info on this on CW
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Old 19-05-2016, 17:00   #45
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Re: Seawater in the bilge

"I didn't investigate, but now wondering if I should have. This same engine room had a small amount of seawater in the bottom which was not to the height to exit the limber hose and proceed down the aft compartment hose. So now I'm wondering if an earlier comment by a CF contributor may be onto something - possible a bad impeller or raw water intake filter?"

You have spent the last 10 days trying to solve a salt water ingress problem and now you decide to mention "engine room had a small amount of seawater in the bottom " There should be NO I repeat NO sea water in the engine compartment it should be clean and dry, so why would your wife need to be "mopping the engine room"

You could eat off of my 3 year old engine room floor and I can assure you neither my partner or my self have ever moped it. A boat as young as a Lagoon 39 should not have a motor that is going rusty already.

You have a leak inside your engine compartment thats now narrowed it down to a couple of cubic meters of boat, get in there and find it. If need be completely dry out the engine compartment then open it up at night while engine is running and use a torch to spot the water ingress. If it has water that is not going out the drain because of a level issue, this may then be slopping around when underway and going through the hose to the sump.
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