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Old 18-02-2013, 03:37   #1
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Replacing Skin Fittings And Ball-valves The Boat's 5 Years Old.

Attached pictures of the complete kit of valves needed to be replaced as part of maintenance on a Lagoon 440.

At 5 years old i want to know the ball valves are in very good condition hence the effort.

Total cost for all shown is around AUD 600:00.

I chose Kiwi 'TRUDESIGN' units they are IMCI Certified ISO 9093-2. Material is Glass re-inforced Nylon 6.

I had to make a 316#SS Adaptor for the engine cooling (VOLVO) as the pipe jumps up in size to accomodate the filters.

Also i've included 3 more valves to convert the sinks in the bathrooms to drain straight overboard instead of going through the shower drain, pump filter and pump on it's journey. It's just dumb to waste valuable amps to drain a sink that's above the LWL!!

We will slip in Greece and install there.

Cheers.
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Old 20-02-2013, 16:11   #2
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Re: Replacing Skin Fittings And Ball-valves The Boat's 5 Years Old.

Great info and idea, especially if you are living on board and crossing oceans. Cheap safety initiative for sure.
I like your work Frank...
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Old 20-02-2013, 16:41   #3
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Re: Replacing Skin Fittings And Ball-valves The Boat's 5 Years Old.

Are you planning to install those valves on the plastic thru hulls ?

I do not think that looks strong enough !?

What was there before ?
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Old 20-02-2013, 21:51   #4
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Re: Replacing Skin Fittings And Ball-valves The Boat's 5 Years Old.

Have a look at this video:

Load Testing A 3/4" Marelon Ball Valve & Thru-Hull Fitting - YouTube

I suggest you try your own test: drill a hole in the middle of a 2' square piece of plywood, attach the skin fitting, put it on the ground, screw on the elbow valve and hose adapter, then step on the end of the hose adapter.

did it break? did it bend all the way down to the plywood ? seem strong enough ?

If the skin fitting breaks burn it and see how much glass reinforcement is in it. If none take them back to the chandlery.

I really think it would be a mistake to install those plastic skin fittings as shown in your picture.

Sorry,
JM.
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Old 20-02-2013, 23:05   #5
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Re: Replacing Skin Fittings And Ball-valves The Boat's 5 Years Old.

They are not plastic skin fittings they are all 'TRUDESIGN' composites fittings no different to the ball valve construction all type approved for survey.
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Old 20-02-2013, 23:10   #6
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Re: Replacing Skin Fittings And Ball-valves The Boat's 5 Years Old.

Where is the flange to mount it securely onto the hull? Did you read MaineSail info about the flange adapters?
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Old 20-02-2013, 23:13   #7
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Re: Replacing Skin Fittings And Ball-valves The Boat's 5 Years Old.

No Nick i haven't read anything regarding Maine's work on skinfittings etc i'll source thanks.
Fittings and valves are type approved to ISO 9093-2 excerpt here :-
Valve assemblies and underwater skin fittings: To meet ISO 9093-2 the finished product must meet the following strength test, and still function:
A force of at least 1500 N applied a minimum of 10 cycles from a position 20mm off the end of the fitting. The fitting shall show no leakage to the outside of the assembly when subjected to an internal water pressure of 0.1 MPa (1 Bar) after this strength test – and will perform as intended.

Cheers.
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Old 20-02-2013, 23:30   #8
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Re: Replacing Skin Fittings And Ball-valves The Boat's 5 Years Old.

How well do you think the handles will hold up? That was my main worry about them... the handle snapping if the ball got a bit gummed up in the valve... I went with the Grocco Flanged arrangement... cost more...
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Old 20-02-2013, 23:31   #9
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Re: Replacing Skin Fittings And Ball-valves The Boat's 5 Years Old.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NahanniV View Post
Are you planning to install those valves on the plastic thru hulls ?

I do not think that looks strong enough !?

What was there before ?
JM if you believe the comments on the Forum the skin fittings are 'Brass' as CE Certification only requires longevity to be 5years, or so we are lead to believe.

The skin fittings I've noted inspecting 7 or so Lagoons appeared to be a form of 'Bronze' by colour when sanded.

I can confirm that the ball valves fitted to our (untouched) Lagoon 440 are indeed BRASS nickel plated with SS balls.

So i have chosen a composite skin fitting that has been built to a standard. These skin fittings have a radius on the underneath of the flange and the thread terminates say 4mm from the flange underside.

The skin fittings have a NYLON 6 washer either side and the instructions particularly mention to tighten to no more than 15 ft lb torque.

The position of the fittings makes any form of impact very difficult.

Rest assured these are not plumbers grade off the shelf items they are a good fitting.

The older skin fittings i'll polish and check their metal type, i'm fearful that they are crap however i'll leave that till we slip and if i find it to be true all will know about it.

Cheers
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Old 20-02-2013, 23:38   #10
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Re: Replacing Skin Fittings And Ball-valves The Boat's 5 Years Old.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sharpey View Post
How well do you think the handles will hold up? That was my main worry about them... the handle snapping if the ball got a bit gummed up in the valve... I went with the Grocco Flanged arrangement... cost more...
I don't have an issue with the handles they appear to be very robust, we swim around our boat often and always check all senders, orifaces etc as a matter of course.

I remember years ago i couldn't shut a valve for the life of me, next day i dove over to find a 'GOBY' (a very tough rock dwelling fish) stuck inside, the valve was trying to decapitate him.

I believe the problem you are mentioning would maybe occur after a fair length of time unattended, we routinely open and shut the valves weekly to ensure they not only work but that nothing else untoward is going on.

6 of the valves i've shown go underwater the rest are above LWL.

Appreciate your interest
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Old 20-02-2013, 23:42   #11
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Re: Replacing Skin Fittings And Ball-valves The Boat's 5 Years Old.

Fair enough...All the best with it It's a job well worth doing (whether using Marelon or Bronze), just for the peace of mind!

I suspect my ball valves will be getting more "exercise" than I do when they're installed, all though I suspect the contortionist positions required to access them should help me break a sweat! Should make the beer taste better afterwards
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Old 20-02-2013, 23:51   #12
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Re: Replacing Skin Fittings And Ball-valves The Boat's 5 Years Old.

Did I read that right, $600 for 11 through hulls with seacocks? Man, I just spent several thousand dollars on all new flanged Groco setups with custom solid glass landing pads for the flange to bolt into.
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Old 21-02-2013, 00:05   #13
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Re: Replacing Skin Fittings And Ball-valves The Boat's 5 Years Old.

A few things here Minaret, the valves that are fitted by 'Beneteau' are very dodgy, they comply to a standard that's dubious to say the least, however those 'dodgy' valves are in every Beneteau worldwide and how many Beneteaus exist? Google and try to find a failure leading to disaster?

I'd bet 'London to a brick' that Beneteau are not the only ones fitting rubbish.

Now we are cruising in foreign waters where understanding languages etc isn't easy, WE decided to upgrade and bought Valves and fittings that are easy to replace and are built to a standard that I'M comfortable with. At this juncture in our cruising it would be impossible to haul out, pad up an area where the valve locates and fit 'Groco's' we just don't have that luxury or facility.

Instead WE have decided to do something about a 'known to us' problem. WE shall sleep better knowing some cheap crap brass isn't going to crumple at some pre-determined time.

Sometimes mate you gotta look past what you see as ideal and understand that compromises must be made.

Cheers
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Old 21-02-2013, 01:25   #14
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Re: Replacing Skin Fittings And Ball-valves The Boat's 5 Years Old.

Sounds like a plan, Frank.

Here is a link to MainSails How to articles.

Compass Marine "How To" Articles Photo Gallery by Compass Marine at pbase.com

I expect you would know many of his techniques.
He illustrates his work very well for we non-boatbuilders.
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Old 21-02-2013, 01:52   #15
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Re: Replacing Skin Fittings And Ball-valves The Boat's 5 Years Old.

You know one of the things about cruising?

There is no supply house of all things wanted.

There is no magical communication/language that all people in foreign places understand.

You do, what you can, with what you can get and what is practical.

I appreciate your post and your correct in your comment regarding he is educating many and that's to be commended.
Cheers
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