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Old 23-08-2013, 13:51   #106
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Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: In the Caribbean at the moment
Boat: Lagoon 440
Posts: 64
Re: Replacing Skin Fittings And Ball-valves The Boat's 5 Years Old.

Hi , Contacted BIAS , asked them if they had info on your boat , but nothing available, did your boat have another name, I am looking at replacing the aft head outlets as these seem to be the only ones that have any signs of corrosion ,probably because they are electric heads and have some electrical current attraction to them , any chance you could have a look at what you used to replace them , maybe a code or ref number on them, much appreciated as i am in UK at the moment , but have a mate coming for Aus to visit me in Late Oct so hopefully he can bring them with him, thanks again for your help.
Cheers Gary

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lagoon4us View Post
Our holding tank outlets were in very good condition, they are a form of plastic seacock of brand that i do not know of.

They are a 90deg skin fitting with a valve incorporated.

The raw water supply valves to the sink and toilets were of brass/bronze construction they were simple ball valves, the skin fittings were bronze of proper construction.

No BIAS is a mail order company, i added valves to drain the sinks in the heads directly over the side in lieu of draining to the shower sump. Also we have 'chilled water' air-con that required valves that you probably don't have likewise the de-sal inlets.

Each boat is fitted with different valves according to the original purchasers order so really every boat differs. The raw water inlet for the engines is through the leg so there's only a valve on each motor to cut supply.

You should be able to get anything delivered to St Lucia that you need once you confirm what you need, i can measure the sink valves, engine supply and toilet inlet but the rest could be any size they saw fit for your boat.

Cheers let me know.
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Old 25-08-2013, 00:42   #107
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Re: Replacing Skin Fittings And Ball-valves The Boat's 5 Years Old.

BIAS wouldn't have a clue which boat their stuff goes on.

Can you be more clear which valves you want to replace and ill get the part numbers for you?

The outlets on the holding tanks are plastic, are you sure you mean outlets?
Cheers Frank.
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Old 26-08-2013, 09:46   #108
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Re: Replacing Skin Fittings And Ball-valves The Boat's 5 Years Old.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lagoon4us View Post
BIAS wouldn't have a clue which boat their stuff goes on.

Can you be more clear which valves you want to replace and ill get the part numbers for you?

The outlets on the holding tanks are plastic, are you sure you mean outlets?
Cheers Frank.
Hi Frank,
I have only 1 holding tank , this is plastic as usual, I am after the 2 outlets for the heads and maybe the inlets, I think I is 1/"1/4 and the other 1"1/2 but as i am not there cannot check,if I remember they have a 90% bend ,any help is most appreciated,
I have attached a couple of photo's to help , I believe these are the inlet and outlets for the heads
Cheers Gary
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Old 26-08-2013, 09:56   #109
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Re: Replacing Skin Fittings And Ball-valves The Boat's 5 Years Old.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lagoon4us View Post
BIAS wouldn't have a clue which boat their stuff goes on.

Can you be more clear which valves you want to replace and ill get the part numbers for you?

The outlets on the holding tanks are plastic, are you sure you mean outlets?
Cheers Frank.
Hi Frank,
What is the size of the new outlets for the sinks, sounds like a good idea as the shower drain tends to get used mostly for the sink, how hard was to retro fit , do you have any photo's of the installation
Cheers Gary
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Old 26-08-2013, 10:01   #110
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Re: Replacing Skin Fittings And Ball-valves The Boat's 5 Years Old.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Huggi21 View Post
Hi Frank,
I have only 1 holding tank , this is plastic as usual, I am after the 2 outlets for the heads and maybe the inlets, I think I is 1/"1/4 and the other 1"1/2 but as i am not there cannot check,if I remember they have a 90% bend ,any help is most appreciated,
I have attached a couple of photo's to help , I believe these are the inlet and outlets for the heads
Cheers Gary
Ok i cannot help you with these fitting as our boat has holding tanks and no sewage goes over side directly, i'd only be guessing sizes.
I'll get the sizes of the water inlets tomorrow and the sink outlets which save the shower pump from running lots.
Cheers
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Old 28-08-2013, 12:40   #111
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Re: Replacing Skin Fittings And Ball-valves The Boat's 5 Years Old.

I have just a little direct experience as to why "plastic" or composite thru hulls are not trustworthy. Attached you will find a picture of a marelon thru hull that was placed directly at the waterline.

During a docking maneuver, the previous owner sheared off the mushroom part on the outside, as can be seen on the thru hull (skin fitting) on the upper right.

When I hauled the boat to replace the thru hulls, this one simply pulled out by hand with very little effort. If the boat had been in the water and something in the locker had shifted into it, the fitting would have popped right out.

If you intend on using a plastic or composite fitting be sure you use something like 5200 to be sure that if the end is broken off, the rest of the fitting remains secure.
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Old 28-08-2013, 16:48   #112
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Re: Replacing Skin Fittings And Ball-valves The Boat's 5 Years Old.

Cheers

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lagoon4us View Post
Ok i cannot help you with these fitting as our boat has holding tanks and no sewage goes over side directly, i'd only be guessing sizes.
I'll get the sizes of the water inlets tomorrow and the sink outlets which save the shower pump from running lots.
Cheers
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Old 28-08-2013, 16:49   #113
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Re: Replacing Skin Fittings And Ball-valves The Boat's 5 Years Old.

Thanks for the feed back and photo, looks like quite a smack ,nearly taking off the brass fitting as well,any idea of the sizes of the thrull hulls



Quote:
Originally Posted by zboss View Post
I have just a little direct experience as to why "plastic" or composite thru hulls are not trustworthy. Attached you will find a picture of a marelon thru hull that was placed directly at the waterline.

During a docking maneuver, the previous owner sheared off the mushroom part on the outside, as can be seen on the thru hull (skin fitting) on the upper right.

When I hauled the boat to replace the thru hulls, this one simply pulled out by hand with very little effort. If the boat had been in the water and something in the locker had shifted into it, the fitting would have popped right out.

If you intend on using a plastic or composite fitting be sure you use something like 5200 to be sure that if the end is broken off, the rest of the fitting remains secure.
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Old 14-02-2015, 18:55   #114
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Re: Replacing Skin Fittings And Ball-valves The Boat's 5 Years Old.

I'm bringing up this old thread as I'm about to replace the through hull fittings, valves etc on our 2004 Lagoon 380 with fibre reinforced composite Trudesign items also. I don't see how all the strength issues apply to our case as all the through hulls, valves etc are located inside locations (under sink cupboards etc) that don't have any storage or possibility of being impacted by anything.

If possible I have a few questions for you regarding your replacement experience.

On our 380 we only have 8 through hulls as we don't have water maker or genset. I have already replaced the sail drive water intake valves.

1) Have you had any problems to date with the Trudesign fittings?

2) Did you use any sealants when you installed the skin fittings through the hull e.g. 5200 or did you just rely on the nylon washers?

3) Did you use teflon paste or tape when screwing the skin fittings, 90 degree elbows, valves together?

4) I know you have a 440, but am thinking some things are still the same for the 380. I have measured the skin fittings for the toilet intakes & they appear to be 1" (26mm) OD (across the threaded portion) fittings. However, I'm unable to get the tail sizes for the hoses while its still in the water as the valves are not closing properly any longer (yeah that's a big part of why I'm replacing them all). I know it doesn't mean a lot but the hoses are 1" OD. What size tails do I need for these hoses?

5) The same for the galley sink drain. The skin fitting measures 1.5" OD across the threads & the hose 1.7" OD.

6) Did you replace the large plastic toilet holding tank skin fittings? If so what size were they? I am going have to remove the wall panel to get access to these to measure.

Thanks in advance

PS For your info if you weren't aware, BIAS Boating folded here in OZ last year!

Dave
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Old 14-02-2015, 22:15   #115
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Re: Replacing Skin Fittings And Ball-valves The Boat's 5 Years Old.

I wrote about the TrueDesign valves somewhere earlier in this thread. While I'm not enamored with a thruhull (skin fitting) attached to a valve. I think the TrueDesign valves are good, far better material and design than the Forespar products by a long shot. The weakest point on the skin fitting valve combo is clearly the exposed threaded section. Not only is it quite thin, but, I believe the threads are cut, not molded. A cut thread weakens the material much more than a molded one. The principle applies to any material. And there is a simple tradeoff between thickness of the sidewall and flow rate, wall thicker, decrease flow rate.

The fact for you is that the parts come from NZ so they're easy to get and relatively cheap.

In terms of a safety hierarchy:

safest - weakest

1. A real bronze flanged seacock with bronze skin fitting
2. A bronze Groco Flange with bronze skin fitting and a bronze or TrueDesign ball valve,
3. A Groco flange with a TrueDesign skin fitting and a bronze or TrueDesign ball valve.
4 Bronze skin fitting with nut and a Groco or TrueDesign ball valve,
5. A TrueDesign skin fitting and nut with a TrueDesign ball valve.

I hear a lot of people say "I've never had a problem with ........" At which point the honest person goes looking for some wood to knock on. The fact is a hole in your hull is always a problem just waiting to happen.

It's simply a matter of you tolerance to risk.

It's simply a mater of what your risk level is and
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Old 15-02-2015, 00:42   #116
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Re: Replacing Skin Fittings And Ball-valves The Boat's 5 Years Old.

We will slip in Greece and install there.

Cheers.[/QUOTE]
Where in Greece? I am evaluating boatyards to lift our L400.
BTW nearby to Fethye in Kas there is an excellent yard with large travelift.
Thanks
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