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Old 03-08-2016, 08:28   #1
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Replacement jib sheets?

So with all the lines led back to the same place, my main halyard is black, and the 2 jib sheets are dark navy blue.

A very simple and better way to do this would be to have the 2 jib sheets of different colors, in my mind red and green would be great for port and stb, but really any 2 colors not close to black and different from each other would help.

I kind of hate to throw away brand new jib sheets that came with the boat, but this is driving me crazy.

It looks like the Lagoon sheets are double braid, it the manual it says 380 jib sheets are 12mm. The only thing I can find that is close to this is Marlow line (see pic), of course in blue or white.

I need the sheet to fit and work in the spinlock cleat. Others have told me to use NE Ropes sta set, but going to 7/16 -1/2" is pricey. Not sure 7/16" will hold in spinlock, not sure 1/2 will fit either.

Looking for recommendations on what others have done.
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Old 03-08-2016, 08:59   #2
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Re: Replacement jib sheets?

12 mm is .472 inches, so 1/2 inch is closest.
sta Set is fine for sheets. It will stretch, so you will have to retrim your jib.
Most people do red/green for spin sheets and have one color for both jib sheets, but it is your boat!
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Old 03-08-2016, 09:08   #3
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Re: Replacement jib sheets?

The Spinlock Clutches are likely good for 8mm to 14mm lines.
1/2" should fit OK.
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Old 03-08-2016, 09:22   #4
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Re: Replacement jib sheets?

A Spinlock cleat on a jib sheet? Huh? That doesn't sound right. Even if it is really a clutch something is wrong there. Are your jib sheets really led through a clutch not a cleat ? Pics needed.

As for the main halyard, just hank it up and toss it wherever it is meant to go. Maybe a tail bag. Whatever you use, the main halyard should not be in sight or in the way while you are sailing.

So far I don't see any problem.
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Old 03-08-2016, 09:28   #5
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Re: Replacement jib sheets?

Here is a tail bag on a Lagoon. Do you have one ?

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Old 03-08-2016, 09:37   #6
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Re: Replacement jib sheets?

Sometimes I think of tail bags as sissy bags. Learn to coil the line and then just hang it on itself by reaching through the top of the loop, pulling some line through and twisting it to hold the top of the line, and just let it hang. There's probably a name for it, but I have been doing it for 18 years and forgot what it is.
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Old 03-08-2016, 11:08   #7
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Re: Replacement jib sheets?

Yup got a tail bag, and yup, sheet goes through spinlock, (maybe I am using the wrong word, maybe it is just a clutch, see the pic for details ) don't see any problem with that. Issue is main halyard is black, she's are dark navy, everything is in the same place. Different color jib sheets would be a great idea, even if I just change one of tjem. When I go to tack, would lessen confusion and make things more efficient.

Has nothing to do with tail bag, that is not where confusion is, it is on top where all the lines are led through spinlock and winches.

Just looking for recommendations on what type of line and where.

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Old 03-08-2016, 11:40   #8
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Re: Replacement jib sheets?

Oh well, I will assume that what you have is a clutch and not a cleat. They are probably in a row in front of the winches. The solution is to lead the main halyard through the clutch on the far right and then directly to the bag. Lead the jib sheet through the clutch on the far left and never put it in the bag. Hank it up and put the hanks over the outboard winch.

You don't have a problem because 99% of the main halyard is out of sight and never on the sheeting winch. You will just have to live with the 3ft or so that is in view. Alternatively, 1/2" Sta Set costs around $2 foot.
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Old 03-08-2016, 15:56   #9
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Re: Replacement jib sheets?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stu Jackson View Post
Sometimes I think of tail bags as sissy bags. Learn to coil the line and then just hang it on itself by reaching through the top of the loop, pulling some line through and twisting it to hold the top of the line, and just let it hang. There's probably a name for it, but I have been doing it for 18 years and forgot what it is.
i crew on a boat where the captain vehemently orders us not to coil lines, but either stuff them into bags as they come in or pile them on the deck. he argues that coiling causes knotting and jams on winches and clamps. He's right.
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Old 03-08-2016, 17:07   #10
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Re: Replacement jib sheets?

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheOffice View Post
12 mm is .472 inches, so 1/2 inch is closest.
sta Set is fine for sheets. It will stretch, so you will have to retrim your jib.
Most people do red/green for spin sheets and have one color for both jib sheets, but it is your boat!
one color for jib sheets are great on a monohull where you have a winch on each side of the boat and you can't mix up the port and stb side jib sheets.

my boat has all lines lead back to the helm station. They are thru clutches. (I call them spinlocks since that is the manufacturer of the clutches).

So there are 3 clutches next to each other (actually 5, 2 more for reefing lines, but those are multi colored). The main halyard goes through 1, it is black, then there are 2 jib sheets, dark navy.

When I want to tack, and I tell the person next to me to release the jib sheet, the dark blue one, I don't want them to release the halyard. Also, if they say , which dark blue one, it would be better just to have 2 colors.

Bagging is not the question in the thread. It has nothing to do with anything here. Nor coiling, etc.

I am just looking to replace what looks like double braid that came with the boat with other colors double braid, and wanted recommendations on where to get jib sheets, and recommendations on what type of line (marlow double braid, samson, yale, NE rope sta set, etc.) Looking to replace what is int he picture for the least cost. Thanks.
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Old 03-08-2016, 20:19   #11
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Re: Replacement jib sheets?

my comments about bags and coiling were directed to Stu Jackson as the use of a quote indicates.
Line for sheets is available at any chandllery and prices are pretty much the same everywhere(or at least will be when you consider freight) Double braided 12mm polyester will be fine.

Do you have crew on your boat who have never touched your lines? Even with novices, they pick up the layout fairly quickly. Are you cruising or racing? Racing requires a well practised crew who know the positions all of the lines almost as a reflex. if racing, I wouldn't have the jib sheets going through clutches as they will slow the sheet release and add another risk to jamming; best to cleat off after the winch. If you do this, you'll have a sheet on either side of the boat and colour is irrelevant.

Like you, when I started sailing my current boat, I wanted to colour code everything, but cruising doesn't require such a degree of detail. Speak nicely to your crew and remember the adage about erring and being human.
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Old 04-08-2016, 01:38   #12
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Re: Replacement jib sheets?

Not wanting to state the obvious, but why not label the clutches.

I have done this on mine (12 in total in cockpit, and 2 on the mast).
Used a Brother label printer with 18mm wide tape. Put a label both on the upper and lower side of the clutch lever so that it can be identified in both the open and closed position.

I put the labels on 5 years ago, and they show do sign of degrading.
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Old 04-08-2016, 07:03   #13
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Re: Replacement jib sheets?

Now go easy on the sensible stuff will you Nigel. This is the internet.
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Old 04-08-2016, 07:13   #14
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Re: Replacement jib sheets?

Quote:
Originally Posted by nigel1 View Post
Not wanting to state the obvious, but why not label the clutches.

I have done this on mine (12 in total in cockpit, and 2 on the mast).
Used a Brother label printer with 18mm wide tape. Put a label both on the upper and lower side of the clutch lever so that it can be identified in both the open and closed position.

I put the labels on 5 years ago, and they show do sign of degrading.
Did that. Much easier to just say, release the red line, then pull on the green line.
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Old 04-08-2016, 08:32   #15
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Re: Replacement jib sheets?

In reference to your above post, they've gotta' learn to sail sometime. Non? And I hear what you're saying about where your line clutches are, but I don't agree with your “solution”. As what you're looking to do actually adds unnecessary complexity. Particularly for anyone working up forward, who's routing or attaching lines to sails. As 2 colors for one function makes for more to remember or figure out. And, BTW, red & green lines look the same in the dark...
More importantly, such a setup is something which newbies have to later unlearn, & can be a danger when they switch boats. As they automatically think that line color X accomplishes Y. Much as if they learned to sail on a boat with the Main halyard on the Port side... They go to what they know/were trained on. So rigging a boat this way is rarely done, for good reason. And sticking to standardized colors per the line's function is wisest. Ditto on using one color for one job on both sides of the boat.


On the primary topic, you reference your manual, & want to lean on it, but it’s at best a loose guide, & on most things it should get tossed, in deference to common sense & experience.
In this instance, measure the diameter of your sheets, preferably with a set of calipers, & then talk to the rope's manufacturer, riggers, or (expert) chandleries in order to determine what "diameter" line you have. As few lines are their nominal size. And "measured" size varies from one line maker to the next. For instance, Amsteel Blue is a lot bigger than it's catalog size listing.

For sheets & other things which are pulled or tailed by hand, larger diameter lines tend to work better as they're easier to grip. When sizing sheets, you want to look at the loads they'll see, as well as factoring in things which will reduce their strength. Such as the sharp turn they take when passed through a sail's clew, the bowline you use to tie them on, the angle where the pass through the jib car, the diameter of any sheaves which they pass through, & then add in a healthy safety factor on top of all of these. Keeping in mind things like wear over time reducing their strength, ditto on UV, etc.
So while I don’t know how big your jib is in terms of area, on a boat that size, I’d say that if you’re going to use double braid, then 12mm sheets are probably about the minimum, size wise.

Also, as relates to line size, clutches hold much, much better when the line passing through them is the maximum diameter which will fit. And every size down from this takes a huge bite out of their gripping ability. Plus, downsizing the line greatly accelerates wear caused by clutches. So don't buy lines simply based on diameter or strength, but on stretch, & wear resistance, as well as lifespan.
My preference is to go with something from Samson or Marlow. They seem to provide a better quality line, which has more strength per diameter, & longer life. Though if you want to confirm this, odds are Practical Sailor & similar have done tests on them.

To help with cost, first narrow down your top brand choices, & then do some shopping around. As there are many cheaper sources for line than "marine" chandleries. For example, an arborist supply like Bartlett, carries StaSet for about 60% of what most chandleries charge. So look up what industries a line manufacturer supplies cordage for, & see what stockists that provide line charge for cordage.

Most of the above is common sense, but then as Thomas Paine said: "Common sense is not so common".


PS: Putting multiple dark colored lines next to one another is foolish, as they look the same after sunset or with many red tinted headlamps. And for similar reasons, you want to use different coloring patterns of lines when they live next to one another. Meaning go with some lines with vibrant multi-color patterns next to solids, etc.
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