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Old 04-08-2016, 10:29   #16
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Re: Replacement jib sheets?

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Originally Posted by savoir View Post
A Spinlock cleat on a jib sheet? Huh? That doesn't sound right. Even if it is really a clutch something is wrong there. Are your jib sheets really led through a clutch not a cleat ? Pics needed.
This is standard Lagoon setup. Sheet comes from jib's clew to the jib traveler, to clutch and then towards winch.
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Old 04-08-2016, 11:21   #17
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Re: Replacement jib sheets?

OP threw me out by saying that there was a cleat, as distinct from a clutch, in front of the winch. That isn't how it goes. I reckon the Lagoon setup is dumb. How can you trim the starboard jib sheet from the port side of a cat when you can't see the sail?

The solution would be to mount a jib sheet winch on the starboard side of the cockpit and use that winch for the starboard gennaker sheet as well.
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Old 04-08-2016, 14:50   #18
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Re: Replacement jib sheets?

"I reckon the Lagoon setup is dumb. How can you trim the starboard jib sheet from the port side of a cat when you can't see the sail?"

"The solution would be to mount a jib sheet winch on the starboard side of the cockpit"

It's not dumb as you may think, look at where the helm is up the stairs on the port side on a L380. Try single handed tacking with your setup idea. The winch that needs to be eased is 20 to 25 feet away from the one that needs to pulled on. Via a set of stairs and assorted cockpit furniture. That would make for a fun dash.

As to trimming we are talking a cruising boat here, set it approx correct then have a walk and take a look and trim at your convenience. Chances are you will want to have a look at the main as well after tacking. (So two sails with one walk)

If not running solo it's easy to trim while somebody else watches tell tails for you.
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Old 04-08-2016, 14:57   #19
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Re: Replacement jib sheets?

Jib sheets through clutches, needing different colours to tell them apart..... just amazing to me.
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Old 04-08-2016, 15:04   #20
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Re: Replacement jib sheets?

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Originally Posted by PaulinOz View Post
"I reckon the Lagoon setup is dumb. How can you trim the starboard jib sheet from the port side of a cat when you can't see the sail?"

"The solution would be to mount a jib sheet winch on the starboard side of the cockpit"

It's not dumb as you may think, look at where the helm is up the stairs on the port side on a L380. Try single handed tacking with your setup idea. The winch that needs to be eased is 20 to 25 feet away from the one that needs to pulled on. Via a set of stairs and assorted cockpit furniture. That would make for a fun dash.

As to trimming we are talking a cruising boat here, set it approx correct then have a walk and take a look and trim at your convenience. Chances are you will want to have a look at the main as well after tacking. (So two sails with one walk)

If not running solo it's easy to trim while somebody else watches tell tails for you.
Jib sheet winches 20 to 25 feet apart on a boat with a 21 1/2 foot bmax ?

Where's my calculator ?
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Old 04-08-2016, 15:19   #21
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Re: Replacement jib sheets?

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Jib sheet winches 20 to 25 feet apart on a boat with a 21 1/2 foot bmax ?

Where's my calculator ?
OK so lets cal it 15.731 feet center to center of said winches, but that was not the point I was trying to make. I guess on your boat you can easily ease the port sheet while taking the starboard sheet in from the center of the cockpit. This just is not easily achieved solo on said L380. The L380 and my L421 both have winches placed where you suggest for using Spinnakers/Genekars etc but that is usually used with more than one person trimming.
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Old 04-08-2016, 15:47   #22
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Re: Replacement jib sheets?

Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulinOz View Post
"I reckon the Lagoon setup is dumb. How can you trim the starboard jib sheet from the port side of a cat when you can't see the sail?"

"The solution would be to mount a jib sheet winch on the starboard side of the cockpit"

It's not dumb as you may think, look at where the helm is up the stairs on the port side on a L380. Try single handed tacking with your setup idea. The winch that needs to be eased is 20 to 25 feet away from the one that needs to pulled on. Via a set of stairs and assorted cockpit furniture. That would make for a fun dash.

As to trimming we are talking a cruising boat here, set it approx correct then have a walk and take a look and trim at your convenience. Chances are you will want to have a look at the main as well after tacking. (So two sails with one walk)

If not running solo it's easy to trim while somebody else watches tell tails for you.
A boat that you can't see the sails from the trimming station needs to have it's designer sent back to school, just so they can flunk him out!!! And... <-- Nope, won't go there.
Rant mode, barely restrained.


Edit: Now, after visiting the Lagoon website, let's just say I can see where seamanship's death has led us.
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Old 04-08-2016, 16:19   #23
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Re: Replacement jib sheets?

Quote:
Now, after visiting the Lagoon website, let's just say I can see where seamanship's death has led us.
Unfortunately, seamanship has been replaced by salesmanship...

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Old 04-08-2016, 16:47   #24
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Re: Replacement jib sheets?

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Originally Posted by UNCIVILIZED View Post
A boat that you can't see the sails from the trimming station needs to have it's designer sent back to school, just so they can flunk him out!!! And... <-- Nope, won't go there.
Rant mode, barely restrained.


Edit: Now, after visiting the Lagoon website, let's just say I can see where seamanship's death has led us.
Keep your hat on. Lagoon is not the only manufacturer that has endeavoured to lead all working sail lines to a single helm station. This is a great feature if you are single handing. It seems a fairly obvious drawback of this feature that visibility of the foresail will be limited on certain sailing angles.
As Ozsailor said; it's not a great problem. Visibility from the helm station allows the jib or genoa to be set and trimmed either 100% if on the "right" side or 90% trimmed if on the "wrong" side. Right or wrong being with respect to helm being on windward or leeward side. On any of the boats that I have sailed with all lines lead to a single helm (Leopards and Lagoons), it is only a small move away from the helm to get a good view of the foresail in order to fine tune the foresail trim. This necessity to move from the helm on "wrong" side tacks in order to get a complete view of the foresail is much preferred to having to always go to the other side of the vessel to do every adjustment of sheets on that side. Especially when single handing.
Call that the death of seamanship if you like, but I think its safer and easier for a cruising cat to be able to perform most sail operations from a single sheltered helm position rather than running about the boat to winches in every corner, whilst helming from an exposed station somewhere out the back.
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Old 04-08-2016, 17:02   #25
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Re: Replacement jib sheets?

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Originally Posted by PaulinOz View Post
OK so lets cal it 15.731 feet center to center of said winches, but that was not the point I was trying to make. I guess on your boat you can easily ease the port sheet while taking the starboard sheet in from the center of the cockpit. This just is not easily achieved solo on said L380. The L380 and my L421 both have winches placed where you suggest for using Spinnakers/Genekars etc but that is usually used with more than one person trimming.
15.731 feet eh? Nope not buying. Not buying at 14.731 or at 13.731. The jib sheet winches on a Lagoon 380, if mounted, would be around 11 or 12 feet apart. As for your allegation of stairs and cockpit furniture - there aren't any. There is a wide flat shelf that should be easy to negotiate, even for a cat sailor. Anyone who can't jump the companionway should get an RV.

Here is a starboard jib sheet winch on a Lagoon 380 mounted roughly as I first suggested. The owner must be a thrill seeker.

Click image for larger version

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Old 04-08-2016, 17:14   #26
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Re: Replacement jib sheets?

Here is a different Lagoon 380 showing both the cockpit and a starboard sheet winch. No stairs. No furniture. All there is to negotiate is the companionway.

Click image for larger version

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Old 04-08-2016, 18:00   #27
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Re: Replacement jib sheets?

First off, as the OP, I take exception to you making comments about me, and I also have no clue as to why you would suggest I am a thrill seeker.

I started this thread in the Lagoon section to ask others who know about Lagoons what type of replacement sheets they got and where to get them.

Lagoon has sold 800 380s. Last ARC was won by a Lagoon. Plus several hundred of the larger more expensive boats set up like this as well. So they must be doing something right.

Savior, the winch you show on the stb side is the spinnaker halyard winch on my boat and boats with the S2 designation.

The 380 has the helm on the port side. ALL lines are led there except the spin halyard, right on top of the coach in front of the helm . There are 2 winches there. Raise the main, stow it, except you really can't get it out of the way of the other lines since all lines are led past the winches. So I can get the tailing in the stow bag, but from the clutch on the coach roof to the bag it is there with the jib sheets.

There is no path from the helm seat you see to the stb side going to the right. To get to the cockpit, you exit to the left (not shown in your picture), down 2 steps, into the cockpit, and then if you want to get the stb winch, back up to a seat and over. The most agile athlete can do this in maybe 7 seconds. Maybe I can do this in 10 seconds at the mooring. You wouldn't want to do this while sailing. This assumes nobody is in the cockpit.

Having all the lines right at the helm station is a GREAT IDEA. Having each jib sheet a different color just makes it easier to use when tacking.

If I was crossing the ocean, making a tack every 3 days, it's no big deal. But when going from Newport to Block Island into the wind, or across Narragansett Bay tacking every 20 minutes, especially when my helping hands either know nothing about sailing, or just enough to be a bit of help, or just myself doing it while watching everyone else on the boat, other boats, it just makes it easier.

Don't understand why people don't want to make life simpler and easier for themselves nor why they personalize their comments. Thanks for the PMs for those who answered my questions posed.
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Old 04-08-2016, 18:06   #28
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Re: Replacement jib sheets?

Are you the owner of the boat in the photo ? I doubt it. Please pay attention what I post for I carefully read what you post.
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Old 04-08-2016, 18:07   #29
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Re: Replacement jib sheets?

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Here is a different Lagoon 380 showing both the cockpit and a starboard sheet winch. No stairs. No furniture. All there is to negotiate is the companionway.

Attachment 128990
And, no doubt you would know that (for good reason ) you exit the helm position of a L380 only via the port side and then make your way around the stern to get to the starboard winch. So how many millimetres is that journey?

"Even for a cat sailor" Really? Do catamaran owners trawl through the monohull owners forums and make petty arguments about boat dimensions and throw in insulting commemts?

The Lagoon part of CF may contain some fairly basic questions, that some of the experts may find amusing. Probaby because some inexperienced sailors buy Lagoons. Just because a newbie asks "silly" questions about sheet colours etc. there is no need to make snide or denigrating comments. We all weren't born experts; and the only dumb question is one that doesn't get asked. I know desk jobs get boring, but how about making your next boat design out of paperclips instead of trolling on the Lagoon forum?
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Old 04-08-2016, 18:19   #30
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Re: Replacement jib sheets?



On your picture, from a seated position at the helm you will punch the auto pilot tack button, release the Port Jib sheet, stand up,
turn to your left, step around the helm seat and down onto the transom deck level, then step down to cockpit floor level past the esky and table. Ask the person seated at table to move. Climb up on the saloon seat with cushion on it and winch in Jib sheet on starboard side.

So that is how a person such as yourself showing good seamanship abilities would perform a tack on this boat while operating the vessel solo.

Myself being from the Lagoon school of "Sails-manship" (thanks Jim Cate you just spelt it wrong) If on said L380 will sit at the helm seat on my own, put my drink down, put the helm over, release the port sheet, take in the starboard sheet, trim then pick up my soft drink in a real glass with lots of ice and carry on, because I am cruising not racing.
While the better half of the crew is still sitting on for-mentioned cushion at table probably getting another drink out of the fore-mentioned esky reading their book.

I am not saying your way is not possible and may well be more seamanlike approach, but the Lagoon "sails-manship" way is just easier if cruising on one of these boats while operating solo. If we where just out sailing for a bit of fun and there are bodies on board to place over there ready to trim and tack when ever required, well then that would be good, but we are talking about a cruising boat operated usually by a couple out living there own dream, not chasing a Tin Cup around the marks.

What ever works best for you, on your boat is the correct way to do it.

Somebody asks a question about there boat on a section of the forum dedicated to there manufacture of boat. Hoping to gain some insight as to what other owners of Lagoon have done.

Up pops another uncivilized somebody who obviously
a: does not own that manufacture of boat
b: does not even own that style of boat

Then proceeds to point out that said manufacturer after a look at there website (Lagoon) is the reason for the decline in seamanship in the world today.

Please point me to your chosen yacht manufacturers website, so I can gain some of these lost seamanship skills that Lagoons seem to have caused.
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