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Old 24-06-2018, 10:37   #16
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Re: Questions re Outhauls and Reefing lines

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Another reefing line question: what is the purpose of the jammers (2) located under the boom at the gooseneck for the reefing lines? They run to jammers at the helm anyway, and only hold the outboard end, if I am correct?
The jammers at the boom end were originally on boats so you could secure the lines quickly and easily when working at the mast. If you've got those plus a clutch/etc at the cockpit that can be very inconvient as the jam cleats at the boom tend to set again on their own. Its a French thing, I used to crew on a Beneteau rigged that way...foredeck crew often had to clear the boom cleats.
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Old 24-06-2018, 10:57   #17
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Re: Questions re Outhauls and Reefing lines

Ah, yes, BelizeSailor, there is a small bungie that holds them disengaged. Until they slip out. I suppose having the backup provides some redundancy. Thanks
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Old 24-06-2018, 11:13   #18
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Re: Questions re Outhauls and Reefing lines

Install the outhaul. A simple cleat on the forward portion of the boom, or a jammer if it has one, is sufficient for adjustment. Why not? It's not something you adjust a lot so that location is simple and easy.
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Old 24-06-2018, 11:16   #19
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Re: Questions re Outhauls and Reefing lines

Why not? I guess that was MY question. Seriously, though, as a newbie, I wonder why Lagoon doesn’t install it at the factory. So, I wondered if perhaps there is not much benefit to the performance of a condomaran such as ours.
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Old 24-06-2018, 11:25   #20
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Re: Questions re Outhauls and Reefing lines

Yeah, well... I suppose it's not oft used unless you are a person that works the wind a lot in light airs etc. Many cruisers motor or motorsail in light air anyway.
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Old 24-06-2018, 11:29   #21
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Re: Questions re Outhauls and Reefing lines

Seeing that we only have 2 sails, I suppose that might be worthwhile. Still, this is a remarkably agile vessel considering she has everything AND 2 kitchen sinks. If Mama and happy, Papa ain’t happy, and where’s the fun in that?
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Old 25-06-2018, 17:08   #22
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Re: Questions re Outhauls and Reefing lines

I strongly suggest you get that third reef rigged properly. The day will come when you need to heave too and you will be glad you did.
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Old 25-06-2018, 17:30   #23
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Re: Questions re Outhauls and Reefing lines

Hi Philiosophy. Well, that was my question: What is “rigged properly”? Are other Lagoons rigged differently from ours?

I am not sure what the connection is between heaving to, and reef state, other than the pre-existing reef state when one decides to heave to. Am I missing something? I was never taught to put in a reef in order to heave to.
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Old 26-06-2018, 09:53   #24
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Re: Questions re Outhauls and Reefing lines

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I strongly suggest you get that third reef rigged properly. The day will come when you need to heave too and you will be glad you did.
I'm somewhat in the other camp. If weather is so bad I need the 3rd reef, the main is likely coming down all the way.

Am I missing something ?
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Old 26-06-2018, 10:10   #25
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Re: Questions re Outhauls and Reefing lines

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I'm somewhat in the other camp. If weather is so bad I need the 3rd reef, the main is likely coming down all the way.
Hehe, been there, done that!

As a newbie, I am trying to learn the nuances of how and why to safely and comfortably sail our vessel to her best performance. I am very aware of the tremendous reserve of knowledge on this forum, and respect it immensely. However, when someone doesn't post any details, (such as Philiosophy's post), I want to determine whether the comment was made off the cuff, and should be ignored, or paid attention to.

Having been in some rough conditions already, I know it behooves me to know everything I can. I imagine Lagoon would state that it IS already "rigged properly", so why should I heed Philiosophy's admonition to "rig it properly" and what does that mean then?

So, although I agree with your sentiment, Catapult, I still want to know what Philosophy meant by "rigged properly". My presumption, at least for now, is that Philosophy knows something I don't.
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Old 27-06-2018, 08:19   #26
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Re: Questions re Outhauls and Reefing lines

My outhaul is jammed in the farthest aft position. The sail is footed (foot is attached to boom in a track). So, other than holding the clew, what purpose would an outhaul have?
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Old 27-06-2018, 08:31   #27
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Re: Questions re Outhauls and Reefing lines

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My outhaul is jammed in the farthest aft position. The sail is footed (foot is attached to boom in a track). So, other than holding the clew, what purpose would an outhaul have?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Outhaul
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Old 27-06-2018, 18:51   #28
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Questions re Outhauls and Reefing lines

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Originally Posted by BigNut View Post
Hehe, been there, done that!



As a newbie, I am trying to learn the nuances of how and why to safely and comfortably sail our vessel to her best performance. I am very aware of the tremendous reserve of knowledge on this forum, and respect it immensely. However, when someone doesn't post any details, (such as Philiosophy's post), I want to determine whether the comment was made off the cuff, and should be ignored, or paid attention to.



Having been in some rough conditions already, I know it behooves me to know everything I can. I imagine Lagoon would state that it IS already "rigged properly", so why should I heed Philiosophy's admonition to "rig it properly" and what does that mean then?



So, although I agree with your sentiment, Catapult, I still want to know what Philosophy meant by "rigged properly". My presumption, at least for now, is that Philosophy knows something I don't.

It is “rigged properly”. There are a couple of reasons why it is fine despite being different.

The first two reefs are used much more frequently than the third - refer to your reefing guide to see at what wind speed and wind direction you should be going to your third reef. So, it’s partly a commercial decision to save money on a feature that is not used very often.

Your first two reef lines are lead to the cockpit and bring down both the clew and the tack. This is a lot of hardware and long lengths of line just to provide you some extra convenience to be able to reef from your cockpit. To work well, this system requires minimising friction, so you have pulleys at clew and tack on the sail to help with that. All the hardware costs money and adds complexity and weight. Lagoon obviously feels that there is less need for the third reef so they saved (you) money by leading the third reef to the mast only and not all the way through the tack and back to the cockpit.

So the second reason for a clew ring is that since you’re only pulling in reef line through the clew to the mast and not also up to the tack and back to the cockpit there is no need for the reduction in friction of using a pulley on the clew. Remember also that there is much less sail and therefore less pressure on the clew line as you reef the main.

All told, a pressed ring in the clew of the third reef is perfectly fine.

It’s up to you to decide whether you feel it’s OK or not to need to go to the mast to put in or take out the third reef. Other owners of your model can certainly advise your decision.

As a point of reference, albeit with a different style of catamaran that is larger than yours, all of our mainsail reefing is done at the mast - the halyard is there as well. Our first and second reef clews have pulleys for the reef line and the third reef (and the soon to be installed fourth reef) has a clew ring. Each of the tacks are secured by a strap at the gooseneck. A catamaran is a pretty stable platform and we’ve never felt in danger up at the mast or moving between the mast and the cockpit, though of course we’ve got jack lines and clip in.

Regarding the main outhaul, we have a line on ours and adjust it hardly ever. It’s usually medium firm and by the time we’d want to tighten it we’re ready to reef. Occasionally in light wind when I feel particularly sporting I’ll ease it a bit for more depth, but with our old Hydranet main it hardly makes any difference. And then I have to bring it back on. Why bother?
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Old 27-06-2018, 18:57   #29
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Re: Questions re Outhauls and Reefing lines

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It is “rigged properly” as it is.... Why bother?

Thanks so much for the great reply, fxykty.

What you said reinforced what my understanding of the issues, so far. Much appreciated.
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