450: Purchasing and Commissioning

[Emerald Sea]

Hi Rolf,

I have been following along these threads with real enthusiam as I will be purchasing a new L450 in a few months. The questions raised and discussions have been very interesting and have also formed my view on which options Im considering.

You have had your L450 for over a year now and I would like to ask if you would share your final selection, assessment of the choices you've made, lessons learned, etc. particularly around the generator, inverter, solar panels, battery banks, chartplotter, SSB/wifi.

It would be a great follow up to this thread and good value to others, including myself.

Steve

[roetter]

Originally Posted by Emerald Sea

Hi Rolf,

I have been following along these threads with real enthusiam as I will be purchasing a new L450 in a few months. The questions raised and discussions have been very interesting and have also formed my view on which options Im considering.

You have had your L450 for over a year now and I would like to ask if you would share your final selection, assessment of the choices you've made, lessons learned, etc. particularly around the generator, inverter, solar panels, battery banks, chartplotter, SSB/wifi.

It would be a great follow up to this thread and good value to others, including myself.

Steve

Hi Steve
You may not know, but our Lagoon hit a reef and I have ordered a new on to be leaving the factory in September. See thread under NAVIGATION. I am ordering the same options again. Below I am listing the main options and also the main things I don't order. Ask me if you want reasons for them. I try to give some in the text. I am at an airport and have to rush. Most of the reasons I give also go for gonzemoi with his L450#132, ours was #130
- Comfort package
- no square top main sail. Easy handling in strong winds is essential, we are not racing, if we are going too slow we start one engine. The difference is only 1.5sqm if I remember right.
- spinnaker gear
- I rescued our gennaker from Next Life
- no lazy bag (unless I hear they changed it) the material was sub standard. I had a lot of wear, even fully through the material within 4 months. Gonzemoi sailing with had another make of lazy bag and it still looked brand new after 10 months
- all electric winches
- 54 hp plus folding props
- no upgrade to the batteries, I will this time replace immediately with LiFePo, which will cost about $3500 for twice the usable capacity and much better high amps performance and faster charging. We often had low voltage alarms(both boats) both of us installed voltage stabilizer for plotter at navstation as it rebooted often when using winches. Also had to run extra cable to nav station to supply more power.
- no air con. Gonzemoi has one for his small kids. I am considering installing my own with a chiller in the engine room and chilled water to the four cabins. Nothing in the salon. I would likely only install 24kBTU enough to make sleeping more comfortable during those few really hot and humid days.
- no generator, if I install then is will be a small one. Most likely a 2-3 kw DC one
- no factory solar. Our two boats had 5 Kyocera 190 (950)W with an outback 80. We ran May to September without ever plugging in or using generator. New boat will get 1500W solar. That should give me 600Ah in summer. That is as good as charging 6 hours at the full 100 amps from the factory charger.
- no factor water maker. Installed Spectra Newport 400 12V. Worked great. Uses much less power. Will do again.
- no microwave. That space is too precious to the ad,oral. Instead we had a small one for $120 in the corner on the starboard side under the hanging cabinets. Makes much more sense. Installed Ikea wire drawers in the cabinet over the stove


Other items I installed.
-Ssb, I had it and will probably not I stall again, unless we start cruising again long passages, which we do not plan for the next few years
- e7 plotter at nav station
- extra i70 at nav station, night watches done by single person usually from inside the salon. Just check outside ever so often for traffic. One I70 shows true wind plus extra data, the other apparent wind plus extra data
- P70 second autopilot control head at nav station for night watches. The wireless remote needs to be rebooted several times very day. Boats boats.
- AIS transponder. Really good. Big ships see you. You can call them directly. You will see other boats nearby. I often called other boats middle of the night that were going same direction and speed but out of sight. Once we hooked up with people we knew by email only. Another time we were able to give each other valuable information. Also good when buddy boating. You can even see when the other one catches a fish 3 miles away, or ask if something is wrong. We often got a late night call. "How are your sails set? You are going faster than us"
- Raymarine LifeTag. When doing single person night watches it makes things safer. We also carried on life vest aeros all AIS and EPIRB alarm
- line to third reef luff point with extra rope clutch. I am not going up the mast in heavy weather and risk a fall.
- line out to gennaker sprit with clutch on center beam. Again I am not leaning out over the water to hook up or even worse unhook gennaker in emergency take down when weather deteriorates. This way all work can be done safely on the trampoline
- Sterling battery-to-battery charger. I found the regular alternator setup only provided 13.2 V at the battery terminals. Even hours of motoring did not charge the batteries fully. Amps dropped quickly to 15 when batteries approached 85%SOC
- strong points and backing plates at aft mooring cleats. The strong points are for storm drogue. The backing plates because we saw the cleats moving when our two cats were rafted at anchor and a power boat threw us some waves. We also had a lot of cracks i. The gelcoat around the cleats. Gonzemoi last week use them to pull a boat off a sand bank in the Bahamas. He was really happy I designed them for us.
- tri-color mast head navigation lights. Was a must for crossing with the ARC but we used them all the time as the other ones reflect a lot off the bow stations. Very annoying at night.
- radar reflector
- Parasailor. The easiest way to run downwind. We fly it without the main. My wife has not problems using it overnight when the two of us sail alone. It just tends itself.
- Victron Multi with remote. The Power boost is great to take peaks. gonzemoi runs his air con with a 6Kw generator plus a Quattro. Also starts a Bauer Junior with it.
- Victron battery monitor

Will not have my boat commissioned by specific company. Send private message if you want to know.

[Emerald Sea]

Rolf,

Firstly, very sorry to hear about your incident and trust no one was injured. I received an email just before yours from Lagoon4us advising me and sending a link. On the upside (and I hope this is true for you) you get another opportunity to perfect the 450. The fact that you have decided to go for another speaks volumes.

Thanks for the feedback and your list. There's some good stuff here and much I need to digest. I may have some questions later and will contact you.

Have a good flight!

Steve

[D&D]

Good luck with your purchase Steve...and many, many safe and healthy years ahead on your new boat!

[Boardshorts]

We recently asked Lagoon dealer to send us the price on a new 450. We opened the spreadsheet on an Android tablet which revealed an otherwise hidden worksheet you can't see on a computer ....something we didn't know was possible.

Their cost price, profit margins, markups etc were all revealed.

There's certainly a big margin with plenty of negotiating room if you are thinking of placing an order !

[dougdaniel]

Originally Posted by Boardshorts

We recently asked Lagoon dealer to send us the price on a new 450. We opened the spreadsheet on an Android tablet which revealed an otherwise hidden worksheet you can't see on a computer ....something we didn't know was possible.

Their cost price, profit margins, markups etc were all revealed.

There's certainly a big margin with plenty of negotiating room if you are thinking of placing an order !

Would you be so kind as to tell us what you can about their margins?

Also, how flexible is Lagoon? Specifically, I would not want to have Raymarine electronics if I could get another brand installed. If you have any insights, I would appreciate that, too.

Thanks,
Doug

[Boardshorts]

Originally Posted by dougdaniel

Would you be so kind as to tell us what you can about their margins?

Also, how flexible is Lagoon? Specifically, I would not want to have Raymarine electronics if I could get another brand installed. If you have any insights, I would appreciate that, too.

Thanks,
Doug

At least 15% profit charged locally .... on everything including options and delivery !

[markv]

Rolf

I'v been reading the forums, and your postings..most informative, so thanks for that...

I had a Lagoon 440 for 7 years, sold it 2 years ago and now ready to order a new Lagoon 450. I have a strong interest in LiOn and I had a 640W array on my last 440, very similar to your new design, so I will create the same as you.

You mentioned for commissioning, you are not going to use the company in France, and I am curious why?...I want to get a Rocna SS 40kg anchor, and the fenders etc I can buy elsewhere, the anti fouling I will pay for with lagoon..but if all they do is put the rigging up, well..we can do that ourselves or hire someone else..they seem to charge a lot but I am not sure what they do for it..Any insights to this?..I tried to PM, but it says your quota is full..:-)