450: Purchasing and Commissioning

[Lagoon4us]

Originally Posted by D&D

Ah yes...b----y marine heads...

We recently found both our 'guest' (portside) heads blocked. We then found many sympathetic shaking heads, happy to watch from a distance as we searched for a solution. Eventually, after a half-day almost literally bathed in s---, both heads were restored to full operation.

All of our heads are Jabsco electric flush heads with what are described in the manual -- see attached pic -- as "joker" valves; these valves appear designed to stop inappropriate matter, e.g. tampons etc, from flowing into the pipes. Given their function, perhaps they were meant to be called 'choker' valves...or else, as it was for us on that fateful day, the valves that can end up saying 'The joke's on you'! Anyway, they may also be exactly the valves DavefromNZ describes as non-return valves.

After much searching, we found that both of our blockages resulted from the combination of the joker valves and not flushing the toilets for long enough. If the toilet is not continuously flushed until the matter is all the way into the holding tanks, as soon as the flush pressure stops the matter will flow with gravity. Gravity will then often take the matter back up against the joker valve from the other side, eventually causing the joker valve to be blocked...and so it was for both of our blockages.

So our important observation (and Rule #1 for guests on board) is...BE SURE TO FLUSH FOR LONG ENOUGH TO RUN THE MATTER ALL THE WAY INTO THE HOLDING TANKS. From some heads, there is quite a length of tubing between the head and the tank.

Not flushing for long enough may (?) also be the cause of matter returning to the toilet, as described by DavefromNZ.

As for the smell, if it's a 'rotten egg' smell, it is very likely nothing to do with what flows out of the head...and rather to do with calcification around the inside of the INtake tubing. So if it's a rotten egg smell, try just replacing the intake tubes...and that should be rid of it!

Refering to the exploded parts list you have posted item 22 the Seal housing, i found that the screws were overtightened in one of hours causing small cracks to appear when tight. These cracks allow a miniscule of water to leak probably not enough to show BUT enough to stink. I sika flexed the whole back of it when re-assembled and now we have no further smells.
The other 2 toilets needed new seal kits, in particular the pressed in shaft seal. Once again the leak was small but the smell high!!!!
Cheers all.

[DavefromNZ]

Another request for help / advice please;

I think that our single line reefing was set up wrong. The line exits the boom at the front up the luff then through the slides to the opposite side of the luff through just a single shackle on the sail, no block, nothing to reduce the friction then back to the other side of the luff and down to a block at the base of the mast and to a jammer.

Overall lots of friction that makes it hard to reef. Any other Lagoon owners please let me know your setup?

Thanks, Dave

[Lagoon4us]

Think ROETTER had the same problem some time back???

[D&D]

Originally Posted by DavefromNZ

Another request for help / advice please;

I think that our single line reefing was set up wrong. The line exits the boom at the front up the luff then through the slides to the opposite side of the luff through just a single shackle on the sail, no block, nothing to reduce the friction then back to the other side of the luff and down to a block at the base of the mast and to a jammer.

Overall lots of friction that makes it hard to reef. Any other Lagoon owners please let me know your setup?

Thanks, Dave

Definitely through a block on the luff for both 1st and 2nd reefing lines on our L440. The third reefing line doesn't go to the luff at all, just the leech. The 3rd reef luff is fastened with a snap shackle, thus requiring someone to go to the mast for that operation.

Whether your setup is intended or not, we can't say, but as you say there is certainly a LOT of friction there. So a block sounds like a very worthwhile spend (if you must...hopefully your broker will help you out?) for both ease of operation and safety vis-a-vis reduced wear on the reefing lines.

[Lagoon4us]

Originally Posted by D&D

Definitely through a block on the luff for both 1st and 2nd reefing lines on our L440. The third reefing line doesn't go to the luff at all, just the leech. The 3rd reef luff is fastened with a snap shackle, thus requiring someone to go to the mast for that operation.

Whether your setup is intended or not, we can't say, but as you say there is certainly a LOT of friction there. So a block sounds like a very worthwhile spend (if you must...hopefully your broker will help you out?) for both ease of operation and safety vis-a-vis reduced wear on the reefing lines.

The reefing line bends around a shackle? Is that how they do it??

[D&D]

Originally Posted by Lagoon4us

The reefing line bends around a shackle? Is that how they do it??

If that question is directed to us (and not Dave?) then the answer is 'No'. None of our reefing lines bend around a shackle.

Again, the 1st and 2nd reefing lines are through blocks at the luff (through eyes at the leech) and the 3rd reefing line only goes to (an eye at) the leech. The third reef is secured at the luff by a snap shackle to the tack/gooseneck.

[Lagoon4us]

Ok i was confused by the following "through just a single shackle on the sail, no block, nothing to reduce the friction then back to the other side of the luff"

I haven't seen how they are set up, we just have empty blocks....Cheers....

[DavefromNZ]

Yes it does bend around a shackle and the dealers staff have tried to tell me it is correct! They want to try reefing which is very very hard! I will need to chase a fix. Thanks, dave

[D&D]

Originally Posted by DavefromNZ

Yes it does bend around a shackle and the dealers staff have tried to tell me it is correct! They want to try reefing which is very very hard! I will need to chase a fix. Thanks, dave

Sounds incredible to us...and incredibly awkward/difficult and chafing when attempting to reef under pressure...and when else, pray tell, do we reef?!?

Seems more likely to be a factory stuff-up. Would be good to hear from another L450 owner.

[Lucky Larry]

Originally Posted by DavefromNZ

Yes it does bend around a shackle and the dealers staff have tried to tell me it is correct! They want to try reefing which is very very hard! I will need to chase a fix. Thanks, dave

Dave,

We won't be back on board until about two weeks from now but I'll take a look at ours then. I helped rig it during the delivery and I have not had any difficulty reeding it as it is rigged.

I just don't recall the exact line routing.

Maybe you'll have a better answer before I can get back here.


Lucky Larry

[Lagoon4us]

Sounds like the block was removed but forgotten about leaving the shackle in its place.......

[DavefromNZ]

Thanks guys,

Cheers
Dave

[DavefromNZ]

ANCHOR CHAIN SUPPORT CHANNEL DRAINAGE?

I find that the channel for the chain between the windlass and bow crossbeam slopes aft so much that a lot of water sits in it. This is bad when washing down a muddy chain. It looks possible to cut holes in the inner sides near the windlass end without having an effect on the structure?

Anyone else have the drainage problem and have thoughts on a fix? Thanks, Dave

[Catopia]

Regarding the shackle instead of block for your reefing system. Our L450 was handed over with that same setup. It was totally inadequate and we installed blocks on the luff for both #1 & #2 reefs. We are still trying to figure out how to reduce the chafe at the boom head where the reefing line goes from the block into the boom. Any tried and tested solutions? We were thinking of adding a fair lead on the mast to change the angle of entry to the boom. However that may just add more friction.

[careka]

our 380 has the same , it must be the sailmaker that comes up with this , not Lagoon.
i Have stand sails.