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Old 16-12-2012, 03:46   #16
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Re: Parasailor or not for a multihull?

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Originally Posted by Ozbullwinkle View Post
Hi Careka

Have you been able to confirm through your experience in using the Parasailor the claim on the Parasailor website that this sail works for AWA between 70 & 180 degrees?
Hey, no i have not tryed to use it up to 70. but i dont se why not, it is a lot easier to handel on a cat then it is on a mono, when trying it up to 70.
here is also a cat, they have used the parasailor for long dist crusing.

LinoCat
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Old 16-12-2012, 04:58   #17
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Re: Parasailor or not for a multihull?

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Originally Posted by Ozbullwinkle View Post
I know that Parasailors are more expensive than symmetrical spinnakers but wouldn't you think that a parasailor would be less expensive than what you are suggesting being the combined cost of a symmetrical spinnaker + a furling kite (gennaker) with the added expensive of furling gear probably something like the Facnor continuous line furler?

I am not being critical of your comment but as I mentioned earlier I am going down the same path for a FP Eleuthera 60.
Is the issue economy or performance? I would not mix up these two.

Normally, two sails plus adjacent hardware will cost more than one sail.

Normally, a plain spinnaker plus a reaching kite will cover much wider AWA spectrum and deliver much better performance and much easier handling, hence my comments above.

Whoever wants a para, should get one. But since second hand spinnakers are easy to buy and inexpensive, on a cat, I would get one and see where it takes me.

Repeat, from the shore, one cannot see any advantage of para over plain vanilla. On a boat, I used plain spinnakers on cats and did not see any challenges in handling that would ask for a para. We flew ours of the bows.

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Old 16-12-2012, 05:38   #18
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Re: Parasailor or not for a multihull?

The fabric of what they are made of, Spinnakers and the para is very different, Para is made out of much more exsp ,/stronger fabrics.
And the wing stabilize the para a lot, comp to a spinnaker.

But i do this due to comfort, not to win any race, but still it pulls our boat very well. and if you want it can be used in much more wind then a spinnaker can, due to much stronger fabrics.

We have made out pick, and would do the same again,
no regrets,
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Old 16-12-2012, 06:10   #19
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Re: Parasailor or not for a multihull?

The fabric in any spinnaker is what you order it to be. No problem to get a regular kite in fabric as strong, or as light, as one wishes.

I think what careka says about the stronger fabric (good in strong winds) and the wing stabilising factor (may allow the same kite to be used in lighter winds) is a very good point.

Light spinnakers flown in stronger winds tend to blow too easily and especially so on cats.

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Old 16-12-2012, 14:14   #20
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Re: Parasailor or not for a multihull?

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Originally Posted by barnakiel View Post
I think what careka says about the stronger fabric (good in strong winds) and the wing stabilising factor (may allow the same kite to be used in lighter winds) is a very good point.

Light spinnakers flown in stronger winds tend to blow too easily and especially so on cats.

b.
Yes, thanks.

and for trimming cats, like Lagoons here is a good page.
Twixter -* Sail Trim & Reefing
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Old 16-12-2012, 17:44   #21
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Re: Parasailor or not for a multihull?

Heavy fabric is hard to fly in light air. It is all a tradeoff. On a Mom and Pop cruising boat you aren't going to be flying a chute in strong winds. The possible exception is failing to get it down in time. Most cruisers use a chute to try and deal with light airs, so you want one that is easy fly in light air.
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Old 17-12-2012, 18:13   #22
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Re: Parasailor or not for a multihull?

We have a L450 and had our Parasailor since April. Den 7000Nm so far. Just crossed the Atlantic. We also have a Gennaker so only fly the Parasailor AWA 130-180-130.
Downwind we only fly the Parasailor and like it best for our over night sail. The air pressure in the wing acts like a pole from leech to leech and makes it very stable. When it collapse it does so very gently slowly through the sail. The same when it fills again. Never with a Big Bang like a regular spinnaker.
Our crossing was really windy. The second time only in 27 years that the ARC has postponed a start due to high winds.

Unfortunately, we could only fly the Parsailor for days 2,3 and 4; in one stretch. Then we blew out our halyard fittings 2m below the top of the mast. TWS was a,ways over 20 knots, gusts 28 to 30. We cover just over 200Nm every one of those days.
The autopilot had very little to do considering the 4m swell with 1.5-2m waves we had.
After this we had to go to full genoa and triple reseed main, which slowed us to 170-180Nm. However, we has to drop the main as the autopilot struggled very hard with the moment coming from the main and the swell. We had to go for just the full genoa to be more pulled then pushed. That slowed us to 155Nm. All this in the same conditions. Later on in the crossing we got a little more daring again and added the triple reefer main in slightly less waves but the same winds.

We had two experienced monohull racing crew onboard and both commented on how easy the night watches were when we used the parasailor. With main and genoa you had to constantly watch the wind angle and adjust the autopilot. Steering by wind vane did not work for us under those hard conditions.

To recap:
Easily flown over night with no tending to the sail what soever.
Does not collapse and fill with a bang.
Easy on the autopilot

We are always looking forward to a run down wind, down the waves with the Parasailor. My wife and I never had trouble to deal with it ourselves.
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Old 18-12-2012, 10:24   #23
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Re: Parasailor or not for a multihull?

Well done Rolf.
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Old 18-12-2012, 13:50   #24
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Re: Parasailor or not for a multihull?

Here is a new film from L380 just crossed over. 7min out you se the parasailor flying,
http://catamaran-yachtcharter.blogspot.no

https://www.youtube.com/watch?featur...&v=_4-fsaot7NU
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Old 23-12-2012, 23:55   #25
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Re: Parasailor or not for a multihull?

Hi Careka
What is the size of your Parasailor? I consider such a sail for myself on our Lagoon400 and your sail would be a reference for us.
How close to the wind is it useful before starting to collapse? I have a code zero that is fine to about 100 - 110 deg AWA and would like to have a sail that will cover the angles from around 100 deg to 170-180 AWA to have options for every wind angle.
Thanks for any insight!
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Old 24-12-2012, 02:06   #26
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Re: Parasailor or not for a multihull?

Rolf on his 450.
ref
We have a L450 and had our Parasailor since April. Den 7000Nm so far. Just crossed the Atlantic. We also have a Gennaker so only fly the Parasailor AWA 130-180-130.

-i have not tried how fare up to the wind we can use it, only downwind so far for us.
Our is 105 m2.
We have no plans on flying it in strong winds, so then i went for a big one, normal size is 86-89 m2 (i think) for the 380.

its very nice to move when there is nearly no wind, and others is on motor.

Merry C.x-mas.
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Old 24-12-2012, 07:27   #27
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Re: Parasailor or not for a multihull?

Thanks.
I got an offer suggesting 125 m2 for the L400. The sailmaker claims that it is possible to go up to 70deg AWA to the wind - it seems rather high...
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Old 24-12-2012, 16:06   #28
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Re: Parasailor or not for a multihull?

When you pass 90 deg i will use other sails. for me its a down wind sail. and a very good one.
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Old 24-12-2012, 18:56   #29
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Re: Parasailor or not for a multihull?

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Originally Posted by meirriba View Post
(...) fine to about 100 - 110 deg AWA and would like to have a sail that will cover the angles from around 100 deg to 170-180 AWA to have options for every wind angle.
Thanks for any insight!
Meirriba,

Why not, have a look at e.g. NS website where they have a very, very nice virtual/visual guide to furlable kite reachers. Have a look, you might like their take.

I am in the Doyle's corner's, so there is no crypto-advertising here. Just found NS' website guides very plain and explanatory on which sail works when.

It looks like you may want something like a G() sail to cover the gap from 110 to a para.

Cheers,
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Old 25-12-2012, 15:24   #30
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Re: Parasailor or not for a multihull?

This is a nice guide to trimming.
And you se here that he had a Parasailor on 120 m2 for his 440.
And if i remeber rigth Rolf had a 150 m2 for his 450.

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