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Old 12-06-2016, 19:29   #16
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Re: New or Used where is the Line?

A dealers pitch is just that. I know one sailor who had a hull damage after about one year and the dealer stopped responding to his phones.

Now the line is probably whether you can afford new or not. From my experience, people who can afford new, tend to buy new.

I would not. What's the point. Boats do not get old in 3 years' time. Except those made of paper mache.

If there is enough of a $ discount, I would buy something clean and 3 to 5 years old.


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Old 12-06-2016, 22:01   #17
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Re: New or Used where is the Line?

Originally Posted by barnakiel View Post
Boats do not get old in 3 years' time. Except those made of paper mache.
LOL Thou not so fun for the owners..
Given the amount of assets to I'd rather get a smaller boat of higher quality..

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Old 12-06-2016, 23:52   #18
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Re: New or Used where is the Line?

Originally Posted by Mr Windy View Post
I have been looking at Used Lagoons. seems many blogs on older boats are better built, they used more material in the hulls, the interior woodwork was of a better quality, the craftsmanship was better. etc.

You have to compare apples to apples. If the quality changed drastically, it's effectively comparing two different boats and the comparison gets messy really quick.

Then I began looking at a new 450ST as i don't care for the fly bridge style,. there doesn't seem to be many 470's galley up on the market. 42 and smaller are just on the edge of what I don't wantt. So why not go with 44, 45 or 47.

the new 450ST set up somewhat equal, is about double as say a 2004 470. I realize when buying new you will take a deprecition hit of 10 to 20% in the first few years. I can except a portion of that % of lose to the fact, I get to sail a new boat! everything is new and i get to be the one to give her, her first character. (part of the joys of life)

You are probably losing 10% the first time you slip the lines. Keep in mind, asking prices you see for 2-3yr old boats and actual sales prices are often significantly different.

However i need more then that fact and feeling to justify buying new.

1. what about the facts that engineering and apponents have evolved in 12 years?

2. what about the fact that in 10 years she will only be 10 years old and the 2000 / something will be 22 to 26 years old?

Yep, but that 2000 probably cost less than 50% of what the new boat costs so you are sitting on a functional 26yr old boat with a huge pile of cash. Even if you have to replace both engines, you are still way ahead. Assuming you maintain the boat, those 26yr old engines could still have a decade or more of reliable use in them.

3. what about the dealerships sales pitch? That you have a 3 year hull warranty and a 2 year warranty on components. so you don't have to start writing checks right away as you would even on a good maintained used boat.

2 problems with this:
- You have to pay retail brand new for those components including all the ones that weren't standard. The used boat likely will have many of those components installed and operational.
- You are held at the whim of the dealer to get them repaired. Knew a couple bought a brand new boat on the Great Lakes. It had some engine problems. At first they bragged about the warranty. After losing pretty much the entire summer season waiting on the dealer they were less happy about having a warranty. If you buy used and the shop can't repair it in a timely manner, you move to the next shop.

4. I am sure this is a age old discussion. New verses Used. so once again I am looking for the positives and the negatives of buying a new 450ST or traveling, looking, waiting, looking again and again, doing a refit of some sorts and buying a good owners version used boat.

A good used boat takes more searching but typically comes with a lot of the extras already installed at a lower price than the bare bones new boat.

5. in the end, 10 years from now would there be all that much of a percentage loss between New and Used?

The longer you go, the less the difference (assuming you maintain both in good condition). It varies but usually around 15yrs or so, depreciation tails off and it's more about the value of the underlying boat rather than the age.

Thanks in advance for any help or positive input you might have the.
Mr Windy
I think others have hit on the two main reasons to buy new:
- You want something custom that you just can't find used.
- You like that new car...ummm... boat smell.

Financially, you will be hard pressed to justify a new boat but for those of us buying used, we appreciate have new boat buyers keeping the market stocked with used boats.

PS: The idea that systems will need to be replaced in 3-5yrs is not realistic unless you only accept the latest and greatest. It's nothing unusual to get 10-20yrs out of most systems on the boat. Do a good survey and assess the systems before assuming they will all have to be replaced.
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Old 13-06-2016, 09:00   #19
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Re: New or Used where is the Line?

If you are comparing a 450 to a 470 you may want to view the actual boats. The 470 IMO has a very poor layout and use of space, including some very cramped heads, which likely factors into their current pricing.

I am currently in the market for a used catamaran and I find it a challenging process. Finding the right used boat at the right price is not easy. That's something you don't have to deal with when buying new.

And I am not convinced that buying used is a bargain. Yes, the price is lower, but the resale price will be lower as well. And the boat and equipment is more worn, and you need to spend more on maintenance, upkeep and refits.

I also think if you are not careful you can easily end up overpaying for a used boat.
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Old 13-06-2016, 09:17   #20
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Re: New or Used where is the Line?

I don't see a 20 - 25% gap in price for circa three year old Lagoons, FP, etc and new boats especially when the new boats are sailed away from the factory.

It easy to do you own maths on some of the gear. I.e. New nav electronics 12K need replacing after eight years so on a three year old boat 3/8th or 5K. So for the new electronics on a new boat it's worth paying 5K more that a 3 year old boat. Then do your calls for generators, air, sails, rigging, watermaker, fridge, pumps, upholstery, tender, etc.

I'm not saying to buy new or secondhand, just saying there can be some math behind your decision coupled with other factors like how handy you are on the tools, bank balance, timing, options wanted, etc.

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