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Old 14-03-2016, 15:46   #46
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Re: NEW LAGOON 42 coming soon

gentlemen...it is the internet, if you can't banter back and forth with unsupported facts it would not nearly be as much fun!

As somebody who has the L42 on the super short list, it is good to have spirited conversations with those who may or may not have quality information. I just think it is great that the conversation has shifted from, it is going to sail like a tank, to excuses of why it can not have possibly been able to achieve those speeds.

You know what would be great, if actual owners of various models would honestly say what their boats really sail at under similar conditions. Personally I care because I'm debating between going the route of a L42 for comfort vs. a Outremer 45 for performance. There is a huge difference in the livability, performance I am trying to judge.
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Old 14-03-2016, 18:14   #47
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Re: NEW LAGOON 42 coming soon

There is a huge difference in liveability for sure. I think it depends on what your intended use for the boat is, but I would definitely be leaning toward the L42 for my cruising style. I was chatting with an owner of the other cat you mentioned and obviously I quizzed him on the performance. The outcome was that his cat averaged around 1kt faster than our L400. I was surprised and asked why. He was also a bit surprised and when he asked the builders they said something along the lines of (insert French accent) ' but of course! She is overloaded! ' . The cat in question actually had a hell of a lot less equipment on board than we have and although it might be overloaded compared to weekend regatta race trim, it was underloaded for a cruising yacht.
Anyway, there's a lot of promotional video of cats doing mid/high teens sailing, but in reality most of us are really happy if we see double digits, and most of us plan voyages with 6-8kt average expected speeds.
I think most cats can move pretty well on a reach with a gennaker as seen in the L42 vid, but I am yet to see any real data on windward performance of the new breed lagoons (L39,52,42) and I have my doubts of their pointing ability, but would love to be proven wrong if anyone has any experience.
A while ago we were sailing our L380 on a reach and I saw our friends just behind on their new L52. I grabbed the camera to take some pics for them as they passed us but to my surprise and slight disappointment we were drawing away from them and had to circle a few times so they could catch up for some pics. Once they furled the jib and unfurled the gennaker they took off ahead of us. We weren't using our gennaker as it was a short trip.
Fortunately there are a lot of great new cats on the market now so go with whatever floats yr boat, but expect to be disappointed if you are planning passages at 10+ kt averages. It ain't gonna happen..
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Old 15-03-2016, 01:47   #48
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Re: NEW LAGOON 42 coming soon

i think lots of people get confused with small working sail area trend in lagoons.

But new boats are simply made to use separate large sail or 2 below 12 kn or so, instead of packing all perfomance in one sail which is less efficient.
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Old 15-03-2016, 05:05   #49
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Re: NEW LAGOON 42 coming soon

Well I too am very interested in the L42, but lets forget about the video for the minute and the 16 knots, lets consider the good and bad liveability design points for a average joe like me. The mast set back requires a compression post just inside the saloon door, great, that gives me something else to hang on to in a rough sea and something to lean against when seating, the shorter boom the smaller main, should make it easier to pack in to the sail bag when dropping the main, built in steps to gain access to the roof, I like that, on my L400 I had a special step made and a grab handle on the lower mast to avoid having to use the chain winch to step up to the roof, that was just a accident waiting to happen on a wet windy day in my view, I like the hard bimini roof, I just had a new bimini made and fitted this last weekend, whilst the old one was in good serviceable condition it was looking a bit tired, understandable after five years in the Australian sun and rain, so I won't have to worry about that. The boss loves the space around the bed she won't break any more finger nails making it, ( frankly I woulden't bother, making it that is) the self tacking jib, I like that, (yes I need all the help I can get as the boss knits as I do all the sailing) the extra size as compared to my L400 is not over the top but a nice bit extra which will enable more water and fuel if required and generally more space, less steps. Now let's get back to the video, let's assume that 16 knots is as good as it gets in expert hands lightly loaded, well who cares I would be really pleased if I managed ten knots on a day to day basis, now don't get me wrong I love my L400 and can handle it no problems by myself but around seven to eight knots is what I see most days, ten to twelve knots would be heaven sent. Not sure about the new dinghy drop down design (looks a lot like the leopard set up) the option box for the tender is a five HP with a 2.9 m tender, would be keen to see a live video of the tender being lowered in to the water. I do not like having three heads (I would have a owners version) the space taken by the third head would be better served with a hanging cupboard, I don't like one sink in the galley the L400 twin sinks work very well. I have only seen internet images so will reserve final thoughts after viewing and test sailing this year at the Sydney Boat Show. Those that have been on board seem to be most impressed. As always just my thoughts.
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Old 15-03-2016, 06:20   #50
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Re: NEW LAGOON 42 coming soon

Thank you Monte for the real world anecdotal experience. I am thinking exactly along your lines as well regarding comfort over speed. The reality is this is a capable cruiser that is slightly more slippery in the water than previous models, while also being more ergonomically friendly in places. For only being slightly more than a L400S2 I think there is real value.
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Old 15-03-2016, 07:14   #51
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Re: NEW LAGOON 42 coming soon

Sorry Sanderkemper, I read your OP as asking for information on the boat in general and not as information on everything except performance. When the performance claims of Lagoon were posted in response (and without complaint from you as to relevance) some of us thought it might be relevant to test/question those claims rather than leaving them out there as fact. Never intended to rain on your parade or to denigrate what I am confident will be a great boat for your intended purpose.

Brad
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Old 25-03-2016, 23:49   #52
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Re: NEW LAGOON 42 coming soon

What thoughts on the Dingy lift ,, Dingy holder arrangement. Is it preferred high or low with the solar panel mounts ?
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Old 26-03-2016, 09:11   #53
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Re: NEW LAGOON 42 coming soon

Quote:
Originally Posted by monte View Post
There is a huge difference in liveability for sure. I think it depends on what your intended use for the boat is, but I would definitely be leaning toward the L42 for my cruising style. I was chatting with an owner of the other cat you mentioned and obviously I quizzed him on the performance. The outcome was that his cat averaged around 1kt faster than our L400. I was surprised and asked why. He was also a bit surprised and when he asked the builders they said something along the lines of (insert French accent) ' but of course! She is overloaded! ' . The cat in question actually had a hell of a lot less equipment on board than we have and although it might be overloaded compared to weekend regatta race trim, it was underloaded for a cruising yacht.
Anyway, there's a lot of promotional video of cats doing mid/high teens sailing, but in reality most of us are really happy if we see double digits, and most of us plan voyages with 6-8kt average expected speeds.
I think most cats can move pretty well on a reach with a gennaker as seen in the L42 vid, but I am yet to see any real data on windward performance of the new breed lagoons (L39,52,42) and I have my doubts of their pointing ability, but would love to be proven wrong if anyone has any experience.
A while ago we were sailing our L380 on a reach and I saw our friends just behind on their new L52. I grabbed the camera to take some pics for them as they passed us but to my surprise and slight disappointment we were drawing away from them and had to circle a few times so they could catch up for some pics. Once they furled the jib and unfurled the gennaker they took off ahead of us. We weren't using our gennaker as it was a short trip.
Fortunately there are a lot of great new cats on the market now so go with whatever floats yr boat, but expect to be disappointed if you are planning passages at 10+ kt averages. It ain't gonna happen..
What fun is a well reasoned response? (insert sarcasm here)

Right now the 42 is probably in third place on my list but its early days in the search and I am still defining my needs and desires. The sail plan is interesting and I do like the self tacking jib making things easier for short handing sailing.

My biggest complaint about lagoons is the vertical windows. I wonder how much air can get in to cool things off when at anchor.
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Old 26-03-2016, 09:13   #54
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Re: NEW LAGOON 42 coming soon

The l380 and l400 are very cool at anchor. Large foreword saloon hatches and forward opening hatches above the berths keep things cool.
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Old 26-03-2016, 09:59   #55
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Re: NEW LAGOON 42 coming soon

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Originally Posted by rallyman1122 View Post
My biggest complaint about lagoons is the vertical windows. I wonder how much air can get in to cool things off when at anchor.
The vertical windows keep the boat cool by preventing the overhead tropical sun from shining through the windows, heating up the boat.

The difference is very noticeable.
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Old 26-03-2016, 10:50   #56
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Re: NEW LAGOON 42 coming soon

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Originally Posted by mjuneau View Post
the weight seems to follow the size almost ... the 39 seems too heavy, 380 too light


380 --- 7,26 t / 16008 Lbs
39----- 11,673 t / 25739 Lbs
400 ----10,348 t / 22817 Lbs
42----- 12 t / 26 460 lbs (probably be more like 13t)
450 ----15,50 t / 34178 Lbs


what is important also is max load you can carry no?


what is important to me is comfort if living on a boat, you would want some creature comforts/ toys. I would give up some speed for comfort.


now days lagoon is a condo on water, not meant to race, meant to enjoy the ride




mike
The Helia, my personal favorite, lists a dry weight of 10.8t. Is this tons or metric tonnes? Is this an apples to apples comparison to what appears to be a HEAVIER Lagoon 42?
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Old 26-03-2016, 17:24   #57
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Re: NEW LAGOON 42 coming soon

The weight given by the manufacturers is not always calculated on the same basis.

Lagoon is extremely clear about the weight calculation of there cats:
Loading capacity
For successful cruising you have to be able to take along everything you need without overloading the boat. VPLP architects and the Lagoon design office pay special attention to this issue. An unladen Lagoon catamaran always floats well above its waterline and the hulls are designed to be just as efficient when the boat is fully laden with water and diesel, food, sailing gear and the personal belongings of the crew. Enjoy unparalleled performance and comfort.
Modern cruising catamarans thus generally carry a lot of equipment and this affects their displacement.
Moreover European pleasure boat manufacturing is regulated by CE rules that all boat builders have to observe.
Precise norms have been defined in terms of construction (structure) and safety (fire on board, flooding, etc…)
This regulation is also extremely precise concerning the way the specifications and technical characteristics should be presented to European consumers. Lagoon of course strictly follows CE norms in terms of construction, but also in terms of public information.
As an example, it is compulsory under CE norms to indicate a boat's displacement in a ready to sail condition, namely : fuel & water tanks 50% full, crew and crew equipment weight, safety equipment weight and sails weight etc.
As a consumer, you should make sure that all shipyards follow the rules of the game in this regard.

FP doesn't give any information about the weight, they just say:displacement unloaded. Does it mean without any load?
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Old 30-03-2016, 12:05   #58
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Re: NEW LAGOON 42 coming soon

Official lagoon Video released
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Old 30-03-2016, 19:54   #59
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Re: NEW LAGOON 42 coming soon

Looks pretty darn nice. Not a fan of that single sink but otherwise....Can't wait to see one up close.
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Old 30-03-2016, 20:58   #60
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Re: NEW LAGOON 42 coming soon

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Looks pretty darn nice. Not a fan of that single sink but otherwise....Can't wait to see one up close.
ya true I didn't think of that, not saying I want a dishwasher but if you don't put 2 sinks then there should be space for a DW , plus there is something missing or just not right in the galley, under counter storage space...I don't like the cubby holes... maybe I am wrong.
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