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Old 18-10-2016, 16:01   #1
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New 400 S2 vs. lightly used L450....

The wife and I are just about ready to buy. Based on our budget, we are trying to decide between ordering a new 400 S2, as opposed to finding a well maintained, low hours L450 owners version. My research indicates that these two fall into approximately the same price range for the most part.

I understand the benefits to buying new. Warranty, you know the history of the boat, the current exchange rate is in the favor of the USD, etc.... The only cons I can think of are the wait for delivery, the immediate depreciation, and the fact that the 400 is quite a bit smaller than the 450.

As for the 450, it is larger of course, and if it is 2 to 3 years old, much, if not all of the warranty has expired. The pluses would be that the depreciation to date will have been absorbed by the previous owner and all of the warranty issues will have hopefully been addressed. The final benefit would be that we could take possession much faster.

Our intent is to eventually live aboard and then to cruise extensively. We both prefer the 450 because of the additional space, but buying a new one is slightly out of our budget, at least for the time being.

So in order to turn my statement into a question, to those who have experience with both, is there a benefit to purchasing new over used that I have over looked?
We have been on both and I have no doubt that both would serve our purposes.
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Old 18-10-2016, 17:02   #2
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Re: New 400 S2 vs. lightly used L450....

There's a huge size difference between the boats. Forget about price, what size do you need, desire, are able to manage and maintain? The on-going costs will be different.

If you are able to find a near new (under 3 years old) vessel which is the model, layout and equipment level that you want, and it is suitably well maintained, in your part of the world and asking a sensible price; buy it! You've been very lucky! Many niggly new boat issues will have been rectified, extra bits and pieces added and yet negligible wear should have occurred. You also get to see, sail and test the complete package, something not possible if buying new on order.

Why do you wish to spend your maximum budget on a boat? If you decided that the L400S2 was an ideal model, why not try to buy a near new example of that model and save even more money for the cruising kitty? We did.
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Old 18-10-2016, 17:31   #3
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Re: New 400 S2 vs. lightly used L450....

The only one on the market anywhere near us is 3 years old and has an asking price of $25K more than a new identical build, and it doesn't even come with a dinghy.
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Old 18-10-2016, 18:31   #4
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Re: New 400 S2 vs. lightly used L450....

Quote:
Originally Posted by HighTemp View Post
We have been on both and I have no doubt that both would serve our purposes.
If this is true, then go for the smaller L400 for numerous reasons.

And look for a used one of similar age to the L450 you were considering - put what you save on the purchase into upgrading and the cruising kitty.
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Old 19-10-2016, 04:44   #5
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Re: New 400 S2 vs. lightly used L450....

We've chartered both and loved the Lagoon 450's size. There were two families on board (4 adults, 4 children under 10) on the 450. I wouldn't choose a 450 to liveaboard on though with just my family (2 children) as it is too big to comfortably handle single-handed whereas when we've chartered a 400 S2 with 4 of us I could easily single-hand it (and it's a great boat as well).

If there's just 2 of you then my advice would be to seriously consider a 400 S2 and save the cash.
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Old 19-10-2016, 09:17   #6
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Re: New 400 S2 vs. lightly used L450....

If you plan to sail as a couple, I would say the l400 is more than enough from the internal volume point of view.
The l450 is less easy to manage, especially the very high boom
One thing in favour of a new boat is the opportunity to equip it with exactly what you want instead of the whims of previous owners.
It takes more time but I did enjoy this process immensely.
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Old 19-10-2016, 09:33   #7
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Re: New 400 S2 vs. lightly used L450....

Quote:
Originally Posted by HighTemp View Post
The only one on the market anywhere near us is 3 years old and has an asking price of $25K more than a new identical build, and it doesn't even come with a dinghy.
"Asking Price". So have a conversation with the owner. They could be just unreasonable, or you could learn a lot about the hidden costs of purchasing new that you are not aware of. As others have said, there is a lot to sorting out a new boat, and costs for all manor of things. Maybe ask for an inventory of the used boat you are looking at, what would it cost you to add all of that to your new boat? Most "add ons" depreciate much faster than the boat itself. So the "stuff" you get on a used boat should be had for dimes on the dollar.

Bigger is not always better. Read Sensible Cruising, old, but timeless wisdom.
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Old 19-10-2016, 10:04   #8
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Re: New 400 S2 vs. lightly used L450....

Quote:
Originally Posted by HighTemp View Post
The only one on the market anywhere near us is 3 years old and has an asking price of $25K more than a new identical build, and it doesn't even come with a dinghy.
Do new boats come with dinghies these days?
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Old 19-10-2016, 10:06   #9
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Re: New 400 S2 vs. lightly used L450....

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"Asking Price". So have a conversation with the owner. They could be just unreasonable, or you could learn a lot about the hidden costs of purchasing new that you are not aware of. As others have said, there is a lot to sorting out a new boat, and costs for all manor of things. Maybe ask for an inventory of the used boat you are looking at, what would it cost you to add all of that to your new boat? Most "add ons" depreciate much faster than the boat itself. So the "stuff" you get on a used boat should be had for dimes on the dollar.

Bigger is not always better. Read Sensible Cruising, old, but timeless wisdom.
I suspect that the reason for the price disparity as compared to new is that the boat was purchased back when the USD was much weaker against the Euro, and the current owners a reluctant to eat it just because the exchange rate shifted. I am more than familiar with the depreciation of add ons. I just sold one of my cars that I had invested a fortune in for "go fast" mods, and ultimately sold it for about half of what I put into it. As with all things used, they are only worth what someone else is willing to pay for them.
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Old 19-10-2016, 10:07   #10
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Re: New 400 S2 vs. lightly used L450....

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Originally Posted by Stu Jackson View Post
Do new boats come with dinghies these days?
The pricing I was provided for a new build had the dinghy included.
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Old 19-10-2016, 10:14   #11
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Re: New 400 S2 vs. lightly used L450....

Quote:
Originally Posted by HighTemp View Post
The only one on the market anywhere near us is 3 years old and has an asking price of $25K more than a new identical build, and it doesn't even come with a dinghy.
I assume you are talking about the one listed in Florida. It does seem to be WAY overpriced. You would probably be best served by looking outside the US for a used boat of either size.

My understanding right now is that if you purchase in Euro's and do the exchange yourself there could be a very sizable $benefit in your favor. Of course you would need to factor in getting it delivered or doing the delivery yourself. That could be a plus or a minus depending on your situation and time frame.

I have been paying attention to the exact same choices and its not a clear decision either way. I would think it would really be a matter of how many people you expect to be with you most of the time. If it's primarily just the two of you, the 400 would likely be my choice.

Where in Texas are you?
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Old 19-10-2016, 10:17   #12
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Re: New 400 S2 vs. lightly used L450....

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Originally Posted by Steve_C View Post
I assume you are talking about the one listed in Florida. It does seem to be WAY overpriced. You would probably be best served by looking outside the US for a used boat of either size.

My understanding right now is that if you purchase in Euro's and do the exchange yourself there could be a very sizable $benefit in your favor. Of course you would need to factor in getting it delivered or doing the delivery yourself. That could be a plus or a minus depending on your situation and time frame.

I have been paying attention to the exact same choices and its not a clear decision either way. I would think it would really be a matter of how many people you expect to be with you most of the time. If it's primarily just the two of you, the 400 would likely be my choice.

Where in Texas are you?
I live in Houston, but sail out of the Kemah area.

Actually I was referring to the one listed here in Kemah.
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Old 19-10-2016, 11:20   #13
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Re: New 400 S2 vs. lightly used L450....

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Originally Posted by Stu Jackson View Post
Do new boats come with dinghies these days?

I believe they will come with anything your willing to pay for
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Old 20-10-2016, 02:10   #14
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Re: New 400 S2 vs. lightly used L450....

We just purchased a new 450S. We have lived on it from the handover. Near 3 months. When we were looking we felt that for our needs the 400 would be to small. There is just 2 of us. True our port haul probably gets a little lonely. But makes for good extra storage and when we do have guests they enjoy. As said there is a big difference between the 400 & 450 size wise. I am not sure that there is that big of a difference in on going cost. However the problem for us was we wanted nothing to do with the whole fly bridge design. With that said we have been help so much by people that love their L450. We didn't want to deal with being so separated from the salon and the rest of the boat. We didn't like the idea of having so much canvas to deal with. So we were looking at a good used 470. Then this 450S came available and we just went for it. We were prepared for the cost and work of adding iridium, WiFi booster, proper solar, ac/dc watermaker, dive compressor & tanks, code 0 sail, racor filters on engines and generator, along with stocking with all the back up parts. Many good used boats would already have these or most of these things. The positive is I had a hand in all the installations. I learned a lot about my boat and it's current design. I was given a lot of advice an ideas of different ways to fit her. Now with it all behind me, I know of everything that has been done or changed.
I am sure there is some savings in a used boat. But I want to live on my boat and try to make it around to some of the world's remote and beautiful places at my own pace so if over the years I loose some that be OK. The warranty is also nice. When you have a dealer that honors and takes care of you. Not sure how that will be when one sails away from home waters. But we intentionally planned on staying within 6 to 700 miles from our dealers outlets the first year. So in end there are so many pros and cons of individual choice and likes. I would suggest you pick the boat that you believe fits you and your budget. Then enjoy.. Lagoon is a good product. New or used. If you get what you like and have it fitted to your needs I think you will be happy! I see people living on 380's that seemed to be some of the happiest campers in all the world.

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Old 20-10-2016, 04:23   #15
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Re: New 400 S2 vs. lightly used L450....

I would not buy a new boat anymore. Whether used or new, something is always - in the end, it is easier to solve the problems yourself than to rely on a guarantee, which is often complicated. In a used boat, you are more likely to have smaller repercussions - the bigger problems were usually remedied by the seller when he still had warranty on it.
The L450 can also be sailed (not docked) singlehanded or from two persons. The high boom is not such a problem as one always thinks, who wants can also lower it. We love the flybridge - if that were not important to us, an L400 would be big enough for us.
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