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Old 28-01-2016, 09:01   #1
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Lagoon VS. Fountaine Pajot 2016

Hello,

beeing very interested in the question which manufacturer is producing the better catamarans (especially for circumnavigation), I visited the "boot Düsseldorf 2016", the world largest watersports tradefair.

Unfortunately both manufacturers areas were a little bit "VIP like" seperated. It was not possible to enter the areas without getting checked in into the area by those beautiful fair hostess. So I did not get the opportunity to inspect the FP Lucia 40, the Lagoon 42 and the Lagoon 450 S from inside due to reason they had not any appointments left over on this day.

But I was able to inspect the hulls from outside, especially the trampolines and the anchor device from a bottom view.

In Summaray I can tell you following impressions:
The Lagoon trampolines have the better quality and you can easily see how everything is installed (for situations when you have to repair by yourself). The anchor device is seamless installed into the hull. Additional I liked how the Lagoon hulls seem to be made all of a piece!

On the opposite side FP Lucia 40 had different phases in the hull. I am not sure if they are made all of a piece. The trampoline installation looked very complicated here...I was not able to understand how it was made (and how to repair by myself if I had to). The FP anchor device seemes to be installed grubby and drowdy...

Overall I can say the Lagoon seem to be the much better constructed cats...

I know my impressions could be a little bit subjective and I hope that people will join this discussion who have more knowledge about the comparison Lagoon VS. FP.

My english is not the best at this time. Sorry for this...

Henry
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Old 28-01-2016, 09:19   #2
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Re: Lagoon VS. Fountaine Pajot 2016

I also felt the Lagoon was structurely more sound. Have not examined it form the bottom. Hope to do so soon.
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Old 28-01-2016, 09:30   #3
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Re: Lagoon VS. Fountaine Pajot 2016

You're asking a very open ended question so you're likely to get conflicting answers.

Have a look at the ARC ship lists.

There are also some good blogs and youtube channels from owners.

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Old 28-01-2016, 09:53   #4
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Re: Lagoon VS. Fountaine Pajot 2016

There's pros and cons for both builders but both are capable and built well for their intended use. Choose whichever one you are attracted to. Neither is better than the other in all aspects.
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Old 28-01-2016, 19:57   #5
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Re: Lagoon VS. Fountaine Pajot 2016

Quote:
Originally Posted by monte View Post
There's pros and cons for both builders but both are capable and built well for their intended use. Choose whichever one you are attracted to. Neither is better than the other in all aspects.

Well said Monte 👍


SV TOT
Wayne 😃
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Old 30-01-2016, 12:34   #6
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Re: Lagoon VS. Fountaine Pajot 2016

Good evening,

thank you ALL for your reply.

I know, this "Lagoon vs. Fountaine Pajot" topic got a little bit milked and cannibalized over the years.

In spite of that I would be very thankful if monte (or someone else who is able to do so) could offer a comparison of pros and cons between Lagoon and FP.

Thank you very much.
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Old 30-01-2016, 13:34   #7
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Re: Lagoon VS. Fountaine Pajot 2016

Quote:
Originally Posted by Butz Choquin View Post

Overall I can say the Lagoon seem to be the much better constructed cats...
You need to look at many other issues before you can draw any conclusion,

Start with the construction methods, What resin(eg Vinylester Polyester Epoxy)/Structure (eg GRP,Kevlar, carbon) and core is used (eg WRc, Balsa, Duflex, Foam) is used, how is laid up eg Infused or chopper gun etc.

Then you need to look at the design process, what if any finite element analysis was undertaken, what assumptions were used for load calculations etc. Then the build process, are bulkheads properly integrated into the structure, fully glassed in - or are they just glued and or tabbed.

And so it goes.
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Old 30-01-2016, 14:00   #8
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Lagoon 450 VS. Fountaine Pajot Helia 44

Butz Choquin

If you’re looking for a catamaran to circumnavigation then the Lagoon 450 or the FP Helia 44 would be great candidates.

There are many cruising couples currently circumnavigation with both of these catamarans.

Lagoon 450S 'sport top' with the raised bulkhead helm or
Lagoon 450F 'flybridge' helm
Which Lagoon 450 you choose is a personal decision as some cruisers like either or and that is why Lagoon makes both models.

Lagoon sells the Catamarans by the foot so you have plenty of choices every foot longer.
Lagoon 380, 39, 400, 42, 450 52, 53, 56, 62 and 77
Fountain Pajot - Lucia 40, Helia 44, Saba 50, Ipanema 58, Victoria 67, Taiti 80

The FP Lucia 40 is meant to be the completion for the Lagoon 380 as they are both 38 footers. Both of these would not make a good circumnavigator, because they just cannot carry the weight that circumnavigating cruisers need.

Circumnavigators need more weight capacity, so that is why the vast majority select 45 footers.

One point to be made about the FP Helia 44 is that it has no steps at all from the sugar scoops all the way into the saloon. Every time I get on a Lagoon 450, I trip on that rear cockpit step. Never did figure out why it’s there.
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Old 30-01-2016, 14:46   #9
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Re: Lagoon VS. Fountaine Pajot 2016

For comparing these two brands you need first define yr priorities. For me, the order is sailing abilities (light wind sailing seaworthyness, up wind capability, etc.), load carrying capacity (how much you can charge her w/out jeopardising the sailing abilities, helm station position, the volume and finally the second hand value of the boat. Everyone has a different list..
Generally speaking, Lagoon's offer a bit of more space in the boat and particularly on fly bridge, sail a bit slower, have almost equal pay load. Finish, price are pretty the much the same. They are both capable for circumnavigation in trade winds. The esthetic is matter of taste.
Cheers
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Old 30-01-2016, 15:17   #10
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Re: Lagoon VS. Fountaine Pajot 2016

Butz, there are so many things to compare and one persons pros might be another's cons. Generally cat designers have to weigh up accommodation/hull volume against performance for a given length boat. Also generally accommodation and volume adds weight. In these cases of volume built cats such as lagoon, FP, leopard you will likely find similar construction methods and materials and pricing per foot. I think lagoon tend to have more volume/accommodation per foot than FP. So to compare ft/ft of the two brands, FP is likely to have slightly better performance and slightly less accommodation and be slightly lighter. I would say the Helia 44 sits between the L400 and L450 accomodation wise. Maybe the new L42 would be about the same, but with less waterline and about the same weight (maybe heavier, I haven't checked the specs) Personally I prefer the lagoon interior designs pre helia, but since the Helia, FP have stepped up their interiors and exteriors and now I could go either way. Purely personal choice. I like the ikea modern look with square corners, some hate it..
One major difference is the saloon windows. The lagoon vertical windows do keep the interior cool and although we have curtains, we rarely close them. Slanted windows on a lot of cats heat up the saloon considerably and most end up with semi permanent shades fitted to the outside. FP seem OK as they're not too slanted and also have a slight eave to shade the glass. Slanted windows are more aerodynamic than vertical so there's probably a slight loss in performance upwind. All in all we are extremely happy with our choice of the L400. Until lagoon released the non bridgedeck version of the L450, the Helia would be in our top choices for the next cat for us. We have enough accommodation and enough load carrying capacity on the L400, but I don't think I would want much less. The Helia would give us slightly more and slightly better performance, but hardly enough to warrant the additional €200k. The L450 would give us a lot more space, and slightly more performance, but neither is something we feel the need for at another €200K. One of the major benefits of keeping a cat under 12m (11.97) and under 40', is that ongoing costs such as marina fees and haulouts are less expensive than a larger cat. Also insurance is 1.5% of the value so going from a €300k boat (40') to a €500k (45') boat will add around €3000/year to the cruising costs. But I digress. These aren't really FP/lagoon issues as they apply to any yacht.
I always looking for the next boat, but after seeing a lot of different cats there's none I envy enough to want to change in the foreseeable future. Some such as the outremer45 look great, but we would t want to lose our current space or load carrying capacity or other comforts (like a helm seat). The interior volume is closer to an L380. Performance is good if kept light, but in cruising trim, not so great. Other cats I would consider would be the nautitech open 40 or 46 or a home build of a larger Australian designed cat.
Really Lagoon and FP are very similar quality with slightly different design philosophies, although that might have changed with the new Lucia 40. Both are built within 100km of each other so the tradesmen and management are interchangeable. Both have some issues with customer service and warranty etc, but both are French so that might explain something. I think FP may have a slightly shinier gelcoat ex factory. Some FP owners have commented that they like the lagoon Stainless steel work and trampoline better than the FP. All pretty minor stuff, which is why I initially said it comes down to which model ticks the most boxes for you on a personal level.
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Old 30-01-2016, 15:19   #11
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Re: Lagoon VS. Fountaine Pajot 2016

Quote:
Originally Posted by yeloya View Post
For comparing these two brands you need first define yr priorities. For me, the order is sailing abilities (light wind sailing seaworthyness, up wind capability, etc.), load carrying capacity (how much you can charge her w/out jeopardising the sailing abilities, helm station position, the volume and finally the second hand value of the boat. Everyone has a different list..
Generally speaking, Lagoon's offer a bit of more space in the boat and particularly on fly bridge, sail a bit slower, have almost equal pay load. Finish, price are pretty the much the same. They are both capable for circumnavigation in trade winds. The esthetic is matter of taste.
Cheers
Yeloya

And I totally agree with Yeloya ✌️
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Old 30-01-2016, 16:26   #12
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Lagoon VS. Fountaine Pajot 2016

Lagoon and Fountaine Pajot competition is pretty strong.

If you look at the new Lagoon 42 you can see design elements taken right out the the FP Lucia 40, Helia 44 and Saba 50 design book.

Designs elements from FP now on the Lagoons
1) Long horizontal stern stateroom windows
2) Sugar scoop to Cockpit into Saloon all on one level with no steps
3) Stern seating at the Davits
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Old 30-01-2016, 16:49   #13
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Re: Lagoon VS. Fountaine Pajot 2016

I think you will find each of those elements on a L52 which has been around since 2012, although the rear windows aren't as wide. Regardless, it seems both companies are giving the customers what they want.
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Old 30-01-2016, 17:01   #14
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Re: Lagoon VS. Fountaine Pajot 2016

The FP Helia 44 came out in 2012 also.
Those 3 elements shown are not really the same on the Lagoon 52,

They are 'EXACTLY" the same on the Lagoon 42.
Designs elements from FP now on the Lagoons
1) Long horizontal stern stateroom windows
2) Sugar scoop to Cockpit into Saloon all on one level with no steps
3) Stern seating at the Davits
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Old 02-02-2016, 15:20   #15
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Re: Lagoon VS. Fountaine Pajot 2016

Visit the factories. It will help you make up your mind. It helped me.

You'll also enjoy some great French food and wine...

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