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Old 10-02-2013, 09:42   #1
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Lagoon Owners Please Check Your Links.

Not sure all models are the same in this area so treat this as a 'heads up' but please check:-

Those who are following my progress on our re-fit (for want of a better word) will know i've built a Port-side Helm station to make things a bit easier docking.

Ok today i've been busy withdrawing the Teleflex cables from the inside helm position to be replaced with much shorter units to connect to the stern mounted helm.

However I've noticed that the tie beam (approx 50mm ally tubing) that connects steering tiller to steering tiller passes below a fibreglass box that houses the Life-raft externally. Please note photo's below, in these photo's you will notice the tie-bar is sagging around one inch/25mm.

It is actually rubbing quite hard on the fibreglass, the only adjustment i can find is to try to slip the ally tiller arms on the rudder posts down a little. Friction like this works the Auto-pilot harder and wears both the tube and glass away, upon reflection we have noticed a vibration, more so when the engines were idling i believe this was it.

Our boat was virtually unused when we purchased it 9 months ago, it's not been fiddled with so it's a factory error.

Please do yourself a favour and check, it may save you some grief.
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Old 11-02-2013, 02:34   #2
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Re: Lagoon Owners Please Check Your Links.

Frank,
I've enjoyed your recent posts and admire your innovation.

Although I don't have the rod/rub issue, I did have a fractured knuckle that had to be replaced/made.
My rudder bearings required replacement but after installation, there remained a degree of "play" which I tracked down to the knuckle that connects the rod to the rudder arm. Upon closer inspection, it wasn't just a little loose, but actually fractured. This was a disaster in waiting - no steerage at sea, crossing a bar etc.
So I would suggest checking the knuckles as well as doing the check on the rod as you suggested.

Cheers.
Malcolm.
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Old 11-02-2013, 02:39   #3
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Re: Lagoon Owners Please Check Your Links.

Thank's i reckon that would warrant doing a dye penetration check, as you say it wouldn't be helpful to fail at Murphy's leisure. They appear to be simple rod ends, i reckon we should create a list of easily attainable replacements rather than 'factory supplied' they charge like wounded bulls!
Cheers for the heads up. Frank
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Old 11-02-2013, 16:09   #4
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Re: Lagoon Owners Please Check Your Links.

Malcom,

Would it be possible to mark and post a picture of where your fractures were?

I have not checked mine yet...

Thank you all for the heads up!
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Old 11-02-2013, 16:39   #5
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Re: Lagoon Owners Please Check Your Links.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lagoon4us View Post
Thank's i reckon that would warrant doing a dye penetration check, as you say it wouldn't be helpful to fail at Murphy's leisure. They appear to be simple rod ends, i reckon we should create a list of easily attainable replacements rather than 'factory supplied' they charge like wounded bulls!
Cheers for the heads up. Frank
and carry a spare tie rod .
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Old 11-02-2013, 19:40   #6
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Re: Lagoon Owners Please Check Your Links.

That's a given, they appear to be same as SKF style rod ends, when this blow is over (40 Knotsish) i'll measure etc.....
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Old 12-02-2013, 06:15   #7
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Re: Lagoon Owners Please Check Your Links.

I'm very preoccupation with the rudder.

if any part of the rudder breaks into a crossing would be good to have a backup or alternative to move the boat with ropes for example.

anyone have? I saw somewhere a lagoon with ropes at the helm for backup but I can find it anymore.
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Old 12-02-2013, 06:22   #8
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Re: Lagoon Owners Please Check Your Links.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lagoon4us View Post
It is actually rubbing quite hard on the fibreglass, the only adjustment i can find is to try to slip the ally tiller arms on the rudder posts down a little.
Why not simply put the rod end on the bottom of the arm instead of trying to move the arm down?
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Old 12-02-2013, 06:56   #9
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Re: Lagoon Owners Please Check Your Links.

If you look in the photo i posted where it shows the ally tiller arm you'll note the SS flexible wire cables that pull the tiller over when the wheel is turned the lead may change too much if i do. Also mounted to the back of the rod are 'Teflon' guides that stop the link bouncing around etc. Certainly i'll look it's piddling down today!

When the rain stops ill back off the tiller arm bolts and see if it'll slide down the shaft a few mm.

Cheers
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Old 13-02-2013, 02:46   #10
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Re: Lagoon Owners Please Check Your Links.

Boom23 has asked for clarification as to the issue I had.
Specifically the issue was not with the tie rod.
The probelm was with the split alloy/aluminium fitting that grasps (with the aid of 4 bolts) the rudder post. It sits above a collar made of the same material. The tie rod (which was OK) attaches to the arm that extends from the offending fitting.
The bolts had become loose and damaged and in turn led to structural damage to the fitting itself. When discovered 2 of 4 bolts were were worn.
I hope this clarifies my original post.

Malcolm.
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Old 13-02-2013, 02:52   #11
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Re: Lagoon Owners Please Check Your Links.

Thanks Malcolm, Yep it does, that item is called a 'Tiller arm'.

I have a question about them, is there a keyway inside or do they depend on crush to hold to the shaft?

It's raining so i cannot work on it yet...
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Old 13-02-2013, 03:34   #12
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Re: Lagoon Owners Please Check Your Links.

Thanks Malcom for the clarification.

Having stainless bolts on aluminum is never a good idea...

What do you guys think about using one, or two, T-Bolt clamps around the arm? Assuming that the arm bolts are OK and tight, the T-Bolt clamps will take the stress of the bolts and may help in an emergency.

A better solution would be to make a stainless collar with nuts welded on it for the through bolts to attach to. This way the stress is on the collar. The bolt threads on the aluminum arm will have to be sacrificed for this to work though...
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Old 13-02-2013, 03:49   #13
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Re: Lagoon Owners Please Check Your Links.

When these storms pass i'll spend a couple of hours in there, i haven't heard of anyone breaking these before, malcolm excepted..
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Old 13-02-2013, 11:18   #14
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Re: Lagoon Owners Please Check Your Links.

Just FYI, my tie-rods have the following writing on them "FLURO GI 20".
It might help in locating spares.

And just by searching the web (I LOVE INTERNET!!!), I found this information about it:

Fluro Rod End GI 20 - Brd. Klee
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Old 14-02-2013, 08:40   #15
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Re: Lagoon Owners Please Check Your Links.

Today the rain stopped and i was able to adjust the small alloy tiller arms downwards to allow better clearance for the tie-bar.

Now on these Lagoons the rudder shaft is composite i.e. fibreglass wound. The alloy tiller arm is very substantial and it cramps onto the composite shaft without keyways or scotch key of any form.

If you ever take a hit on the rudder the arms could well slip on the shaft instead of shattering it, i think this is the designers intention!
This works in your favour in two ways, firstly if you do indeed take an impact by floating debris or a light grounding you can re-adjust the rudder alignment whilst afloat.

The second advantage is that these Lagoon's can be set up for 'ACKERMAN' style steering alignment which i shall do when slipped next (Greece in about 3 months), Having your rudders set using Ackerman alignment gives you less turbulence on tight turns whether sailing or motoring.

Sailing wise it will get rid of a lot of rudder drag, turn on a sixpence almost!

If the tiller arms were keyed to the shafts you would have to make new arms to achieve this worthwhile function.

Oh it would be worthwhile to mark a line down your rudder shaft and correspondingly onto the tiller arm so you can check the line at any time to be confident your rudders haven't changed alignment.

Cheers more work to do....
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