Lagoon Comparison

[pathlesschosen]

The admiral and I are in the process of researching cats and plan to charter our “finals” before purchasing. Our plan is to spend some time in the Caribbean then head across the pacific. Both of us are interested in the Lagoons, primarily the 380 and 410, but would also like some input on the 400 and 420. We are also interested in other brands but will ask questions on separate threads. Below are my thoughts and questions:

Lagoon 380:
·Excellent owner’s suite, especially the shower.
·The quest head is too small. I prefer a separate shower area.
·Good engine location. I prefer outside. Does this location increase the hobby horsing due to aft location? Newer versions have “storage” over the engines. Seems to make access harder?
·Payload?
·Very small galley.

Lagoon 410:
·Owner’s suite functional.
·I like the larger separate shower area for the guest berths.
·Engine location is inside. I have not been on a 410. How difficult is the access?
·Improved galley. How is access walking through the galley due to the seating?
·Payload?
·Does the extra length of the 410 provide better stability compared to the 380?
·Sailing performance compared to the 380?

Lagoon 400:
·We are not impressed with the interior joinery. Recent posts provide some limited discussion on this top. More information regarding joinery quality would be appreciated.
·How does sailing performance compare to the 380 and 410?
·Payload?
·Otherwise a pretty nice boat.

Lagoon 420:
·The 420 would be my boat of choice if floating around the Caribbean. Beautiful layout! A lot of boat for only two people with occasional guests.

Thanks!

[Lagoon4us]

All sailing attributes aside i love the openness of the galley lounge relative to the cockpit, as most time is spent 'parked' i believe the layout is very good. Only technical comment would to be sure to only go for diesel as there are a lot of 'sex changes having to be done.
Seems the Hybrid version didn't come up to expectations... Good Luck we are doing the same however chose a 440 for our own reasons. Cheers Frank

[Sand crab]

Avoid the L420 hybrid.

[pathlesschosen]

As a monohull sailor looking to change sides I was hoping for input from this great boating forum. The wife wants a cat and I want to go sailing. Just looking for some of the positives and negatives regarding different models to help narrow the choices before chartering my final choices.

Thanks!

[Lagoon4us]

Originally Posted by pathlesschosen

As a monohull sailor looking to change sides I was hoping for input from this great boating forum. The wife wants a cat and I want to go sailing. Just looking for some of the positives and negatives regarding different models to help narrow the choices before chartering my final choices.

Thanks!

What you are doing i guess is similar to what we are and am presently doing. In the past i've built many round bilge yachts in steel and aluminium culminating in building larger charter yachts here in Australia.
Google Scaffie, i can sail circles. this boat i built on an island in the Whitsundays in late 70's then google Spirit of Freedom, Febrina and Sydney Showboat 11 and you will see my handiwork.
I was a dyed in the wool monohuller but sadly my wife never went for the heeling motion of a mono,,,, so then i built a western red cedar cat 32' long and all was good.
Now we are in the process of finalising the purchase of a Lagoon 44. To us there is no better an interior on all cats we have looked at. The layout is so workable, uncluttered etc.
The yacht is powerful sails well and has the weight and drive to power through most weather we will subject her to.
Choosing a boat is very personal albeit like choosing a life partner and far be it for anyone to critizise anyones choice for fear of insult.
WE want comfort, safety, endurance, pace, shelter, luxury, drive, displacement to carry our possessions and eventually re-sale.
Right now as Australians our buying power in Europe and USA has never been stronger so now any Lagoon is achievable, we have taken early retirement the world is our oyster.
I would go for a Lagoon 410 diesel powered or 440 both in 3 cabin versions. Cheers Frank

[roetter]

Originally Posted by pathlesschosen

As a monohull sailor looking to change sides I was hoping for input from this great boating forum. The wife wants a cat and I want to go sailing. Just looking for some of the positives and negatives regarding different models to help narrow the choices before chartering my final choices.

Thanks!

We are just doing the same thing. Our mono is for sale. The Lagoon 450 is ordered. Main reasons. I want to do things with my family. We did the inside passage to Alaska on the mono in 2010, but I never got to go to the Queen Charlottes (Haida Gwai). The rough weather would have made my wife step of the boat and say "never again". With some heal she gets really nervous, and with gusts she is scared. On the other hand she really enjoyed going from Martinique to St. Lucia and on to the Tobago Quays in a L450. We did have good wind and some days with good waves. So from that point it is a no-brainer.

The L450 moved really well with just the main the the standard jib. In 12-15 knots on the beam we would go about 8 knots. Mind you we like to trim our sails well and rigged a barber-hauler for the jib to bring the top of the leech in.

I don't see why the 400 would have different quality in the interior. The Lagoons from the 380 to the 450 are all built in the same factory, on the same assembly line. I visited the factory in December.

We chartered a L400 last March, and I cannot say that the finish was noticeably different from the L450 or L440.

The longer the boat - the less "hobby-horseing". Maybe you should look at a used 440. They have been really quick in the recent Atlantic rally for Cruisers.

I have heard that the L410 is pretty slow.

[Lagoon4us]

Originally Posted by roetter

We are just doing the same thing. Our mono is for sale. The Lagoon 450 is ordered. Main reasons. I want to do things with my family. We did the inside passage to Alaska on the mono in 2010, but I never got to go to the Queen Charlottes (Haida Gwai). The rough weather would have made my wife step of the boat and say "never again". With some heal she gets really nervous, and with gusts she is scared. On the other hand she really enjoyed going from Martinique to St. Lucia and on to the Tobago Quays in a L450. We did have good wind and some days with good waves. So from that point it is a no-brainer.

The L450 moved really well with just the main the the standard jib. In 12-15 knots on the beam we would go about 8 knots. Mind you we like to trim our sails well and rigged a barber-hauler for the jib to bring the top of the leech in.

I don't see why the 400 would have different quality in the interior. The Lagoons from the 380 to the 450 are all built in the same factory, on the same assembly line. I visited the factory in December.

We chartered a L400 last March, and I cannot say that the finish was noticeably different from the L450 or L440.

The longer the boat - the less "hobby-horseing". Maybe you should look at a used 440. They have been really quick in the recent Atlantic rally for Cruisers.

I have heard that the L410 is pretty slow.

Agree on the slowness of 410 i more put in the equation on availibility and price, our choice 440 but thats just our personal feelings. The first mate is VERY important!!!!!

[dirkdig]

Our pic was a 440 about 3 years ago and loved every minute since, laying on it now off Cairns and its awesome in every way.
Whn e were looking it ws about our 4 th choice to start with!

[shabbab]

Originally Posted by pathlesschosen

Lagoon 410:
·Owner’s suite functional.
·I like the larger separate shower area for the guest berths.
·Engine location is inside. I have not been on a 410. How difficult is the access?
·Improved galley. How is access walking through the galley due to the seating?
·Payload?
·Does the extra length of the 410 provide better stability compared to the 380?
·Sailing performance compared to the 380?

We have a Lagoon 410.

Engine access is not an issue as the engine bay is quite large. It's good enough to easily get at the routine jobs you have to do from time to time, including working on the water pump and such.

If you really need to do some engine surgery you just take it out through the access panel in the ceiling. These are just bedded in silicone and can easily be opened and re-sealed.

I think this layout is superior over the L380 arrangement with the outside hatches. I don't like the idea of hopping around the transom and open the engine bay in a heavy sea to clean a clogged fuel filter.
Even better of course is something like a Privilege 39 where you have a dedicated engine bay that is accessible from the outside without climbing over the transom.


Compared to the L380 the salon, galley and cockpit are much much bigger. The cabins are comparable. Payload of the L410 is better, at least on paper.

In direct comparison the L410 sails better, the hulls have a better width / length ratio. The L410 is more stable, simply because of the longer hulls and wider overall beam, but this is barely noticeable.
Our L410 is heavily loaded and still sails faster than our buddies L380. Maybe he is worse at sail tuning than we and we would loose big time against some better sailor. I don't know and I don't care, most of the time we are all trying to do 0 knots at anchor

The only thing I don't like about the L410 is the anchoring arrangement, as the anchor chain is not lead to the bow but comes out under the bridgedeck. This makes anchoring in stronger winds a bit more difficult than it has to be, but you get used to it. You just need to hold it into the wind all the time until the bridle is lowered.
This arrangement is however pretty common, so should not be a deal breaker.

If you want to know more, let me know.

If you still like the L410, send me a PM as ours is for sale.

[pathlesschosen]

The Lagoon 440 and 450 are wonderful boats. The flybridge thing had me turned off at first, but the more I consider the benefits the more I like the arrangement. Unfortunately my stock broker and real estate agent keep reminding me of the recession. As the saying goes, go small and go now. Hence the smaller craft. Maybe a larger boat in the future!

Thanks everybody for keeping this thread positive and not negative. All boats I've sailed have their good and bad, the reason for titling the thread "Comparison". We are all lucky/unlucky enough to have the sailing addiction regardless of our preferred dingy...

Speaking of preferred, we also have a few more brands on the list. What is there not to like about Privilege. F.P Bahia, gorgeous. Outremer (recession thing again). Same with Catana and PDQ. Nautitech might make the short list. Heck, give me a F.P Tobago, warm breeze, and cold drink. Pura Vida!

A little more comparison is much appreciated.

[cw2014]

throughout the list you gave and knowing all these units my professional opinion would give a favor to the Lagoon 400 even if I blame him for the storages which are not enough of corse everything is turning around the budget.

[shabbab]

Originally Posted by pathlesschosen

[...] What is there not to like about Privilege. [...]
Nautitech might make the short list. [...]

Privilege are very nice boats, I was always hunting for one but it did not work out for some reason or the other.
I think the engine arrangement of a Privilege 39 is superior to most newer bats.
The only thing that would turn me off is the salon window arrangement, which gives a good greenhouse effect. Limited view, very hot during the day, most boats have some shade things attached on the outside but then you can't really see out anymore and could do without a window in the first place.
Plus the space and open feeling in a lagoon salon is not comparable to a Privilege. OK, say a P39 or P37. I just anchored off a P 615, that's a different story

Nautitech: Not for me, the helm stations I have seen on most are just too exposed for anything but coastal cruising. Just imagine stormy weather, steep seas, the autopilot either quits or is simply to slow to respond. You have to hand steer for hours. You are exposed to the weather and you are on the edge of the boat, protected from falling over only by a lifeline.
Not to mention that the AP could fail on a longer passage and you have to handsteer for a few weeks.

Another thing to consider: If you ever want / need to sell the boat again it is much easier if you are in the mainstream segment. That is FP, Lagoon, [then comes nothing for a long time] or any other major brand.
If you have a very special boat, you will need to find a buyer with the same very special need or taste. Not impossible, but may take much longer.

Plus the market value of your boat is much less predicatable than in the major brands. Supply and demand. If there is very limited demand for a certain model then just two or three boats can drive the value down.
Whereas two Lagoon 380 even in the same harbour? Who cares?

That is already true for Privileges. I can point you to four Privilege 37 that are still for sale over 2 years after I looked at them.

[pathlesschosen]

Thanks Shabbab for your input. I really like the Privilege boats but the lack of visibility made the wife say no. As for me, I am still impressed. The aft helm of the Catana and Nautitech is something I may get used to depending on other good boat qualities. Kind of like the flybridge on the 440 and 450. My first thought was heck no, but the more I think about the positives the more I like the arrangement. The 440 and 450 are on top of my list if economics improve. St Francis are also on my list. Bridgedeck clearance is an issue but they have a lot of redeeming qualities. I am also looking at some of the Leopard boats. I am not crazy about their use of balsa but hard to beat their galley and joinery, an area where Lagoon completely misses the mark.

I am really interested in comparing sailing performance, especially on the 400 and 420. The dealer liked to talk about how the 400 is very fast. They also said the 420 was a good boat for the "bathtub". Any personal experience?

[shabbab]

Just wondering how you could "get used to" the aft helm arrangement?
I mean this is plain dangerous when sailing in bad weather. Which you will experience sooner or later if you go offshore.
I know many people don't have a problem with that. But ask them how many offshore miles they have done with that arrangement and if anything involved handsteering in nasty weather (not just 30kn in a squall but some sustained F9 or more).

The flybridge will conceptually cost you either performance or safety as you need to raise the boom quite a bit.
So you either have a smaller sailplan which means the boat is slower than it has to be.
Or you move the sailplan up and get a higher center of effort, which means increased momentum for capsize and pitchpoling plus higher loads on the rigg.

Beside when docking shorthanded I think being up there at the flybridge doesn't make things easier. Whenever we dock in marinas with Med style stern-to mooring I always have to leave the helm for some moments to handle some lines. But maybe others have better trained and faster wifes?

It also depends if you like to be alone up there when sailing or if you want to be more socialized.

But I agree a flybridge looks cool.

[Otia]

Originally Posted by pathlesschosen

Our plan is to spend some time in the Caribbean then head across the pacific.
Thanks!

Sorry for my English, I'm French speaking.

Disclaimer: First I must say I am a monohull person and I have some resentment towards seaworthiness of cats.

This past fall I sailed a L380 from NYC to Turks & Caicos.
We hit a bad winter storm on October 30-31. Up to 60 kts winds. I thought the Cat would break in pieces, but it held. Those noises though... it's nothing to make you feel confident. Never again I want to sail a Cat in a bad storm.

One other major complain I have about the L380, the one I was sailing anyway, is the lack of sail controls. For instance, there were no outhaul, no vang, no nothing! It was obviously a boat for cruising the BVIs in fair weather. May be not all L380 are the same, I don't know. When in rough weather, like you have to expect in a long crossing through the Pacific, you do appreciate controls to reduce your sails, flatten them, etc.