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Old 10-03-2012, 18:46   #16
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Re: Lagoon Comparison

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Avoid the L420 hybrid.
absolutely. agree................are there any still out there that were not converted to 'normal' diesel propulsion............surely not A power cat with sails that cant sail worth a damn unless you use the electric motors to motor sail...............a really cheap one that was ripe for dropping two nice new Yanmars in it with max props might be a deal
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Old 11-03-2012, 01:51   #17
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Re: Lagoon Comparison

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Originally Posted by Otia View Post
Sorry for my English, I'm French speaking.

Disclaimer: First I must say I am a monohull person and I have some resentment towards seaworthiness of cats.

This past fall I sailed a L380 from NYC to Turks & Caicos.
We hit a bad winter storm on October 30-31. Up to 60 kts winds. I thought the Cat would break in pieces, but it held. Those noises though... it's nothing to make you feel confident. Never again I want to sail a Cat in a bad storm.

One other major complain I have about the L380, the one I was sailing anyway, is the lack of sail controls. For instance, there were no outhaul, no vang, no nothing! It was obviously a boat for cruising the BVIs in fair weather. May be not all L380 are the same, I don't know. When in rough weather, like you have to expect in a long crossing through the Pacific, you do appreciate controls to reduce your sails, flatten them, etc.
Says more about the brand than the breed.
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Old 11-03-2012, 03:08   #18
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Re: Lagoon Comparison

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Says more about the brand than the breed.
So let me guess, a Seawind has all of those controls, with high-quality gold braided ropes and gold plated winches?
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Old 11-03-2012, 03:28   #19
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Re: Lagoon Comparison

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So let me guess, a Seawind has all of those controls, with high-quality gold braided ropes and gold plated winches?
No of course not - but it is unashamedly focussed more on sailing than some others. Not a criticism of Lagoon, its the way they choose to build boats and they are incredibly successful. Why the antagonism? I never mentioned Seawind, on the great scheme of cats where far west on the line is slow no bridge deck clearance no strength and far east is very fast supremely comfortable incredibly strong there is room for many variations on the theme, Lagoon choose their point FP theirs, Outremer theirs and Chris White his. What peeves me is when some bloke comes in and says - well I have sailed one cat once and I didn't like it therefore all cats are crap in a storm.

Oh - very few cats have a vang, it is superfluous when you have a very wide traveller. nd yes all our boats have an outhaul, and indeed some lagoons that I have sailed have one.

Would you be happier if I said "More about THAT boat than the breed."
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Old 11-03-2012, 03:33   #20
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Re: Lagoon Comparison

I agree this is absolutely very dangerous to be in bad weather with a catamaran and i mean this problem concern all of them, for my own experience i remember three years ago i was with a Fountaine Pajot 46 closed to the east American coast, on way to Annapolis, when a several gale was announced, for chance i could join the harbor of Georgetown 2O hours before the highest, i was lucky.Here also the demonstration of always having a relay to the ground for the Weather to compare with the informations on board.
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Old 11-03-2012, 14:48   #21
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Re: Lagoon Comparison

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... What peeves me is when some bloke comes in and says - well I have sailed one cat once and I didn't like it therefore all cats are crap in a storm...
Hey, I did not want to upset you, nor anyone else. I did put a disclaimer, I admit I am biased in favor of monohulls:
- For the same money, let say as a L380, you can get a serious monohull with similar comfort.
- I did sail cats a few times, not just once. It's nice, lots of space, but I lack this feeling of sailing -- again, I'm biased. Not everyone feels the same, and it's ok! I have friends who bought cats, we still are friends...
- High seas seaworthiness of cats is disputed. Whoever is considering getting a cat to cross the Pacific should be aware of this and make an informed decision.

- cheers.
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Old 11-03-2012, 15:15   #22
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Re: Lagoon Comparison

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Hey, I did not want to upset you, nor anyone else. I did put a disclaimer, I admit I am biased in favor of monohulls:
- For the same money, let say as a L380, you can get a serious monohull with similar comfort.
- I did sail cats a few times, not just once. It's nice, lots of space, but I lack this feeling of sailing -- again, I'm biased. Not everyone feels the same, and it's ok! I have friends who bought cats, we still are friends...
- High seas seaworthiness of cats is disputed. Whoever is considering getting a cat to cross the Pacific should be aware of this and make an informed decision.

- cheers.
Not having a go at you BUT the thread was a person asking for comparisons between Lagoon models, Where did the poster ask "what mono do you suggest to replace my L380"?

None of your comments are relevant to his question!

Personally i love mono's if i had a different requirement for a boat right now then i could well go back to one.

If the OP's question was which Lagoon would suit for a fast circumnavigation out of season around the capes then i too would argue, thread drift whatever BUT it wasn't it's a brand specific question asking for comment from experienced owners/prospective owners.

As i said i'm not having a go at you i just don't see why you bothered to comment. Cheers Frank.
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Old 11-03-2012, 15:30   #23
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Re: Lagoon Comparison

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Not having a go at you .
YOUR NOT!!!?

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Originally Posted by Lagoon4us View Post
As i said i'm not having a go at you i just don't see why you bothered to comment. Cheers Frank.

really

you cannot be serious - because is the flipping WWW where everyone has an opinion and likes to voice it
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Old 11-03-2012, 15:36   #24
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Re: Lagoon Comparison

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YOUR NOT!!!?




really

you cannot be serious - because is the flipping WWW where everyone has an opinion and likes to voice it
Or create unnecessary argument, is that constructive? NO.

Show me where the posted comment answers the question? It doesn't all it does is bring out the silly mono/multi argument that results in the thread being closed.

We have seen these dumb opinions a thousand times.

Cheers.
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Old 11-03-2012, 18:23   #25
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Re: Lagoon Comparison

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None of your comments are relevant to his question!
Well, I stand corrected.
I also get irritated when people post irrelevant noise.
It's that comment about wanting to do a Pacific crossing in a Lagoon that prompted me to post about my recent experience in a L380.
As you say "Political correctness is a creeping sickness that knows no boundaries".
Cheers.
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Old 11-03-2012, 18:30   #26
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Re: Lagoon Comparison

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Well, I stand corrected.
I also get irritated when people post irrelevant noise.
It's that comment about wanting to do a Pacific crossing in a Lagoon that prompted me to post about my recent experience in a L380.
As you say "Political correctness is a creeping sickness that knows no boundaries".
Cheers.
Your a diamond, good on you cheers!
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Old 11-03-2012, 18:33   #27
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Re: Lagoon Comparison

Otia,

Would not think there would be any issue with a Pacific crossing in a Lagoon 380 or similar cats the following typical trade route avoiding cyclone seasons. Plenty have done it.


Doing a circumnavigation in the roaring 40's or lower would be a different matter. Would also need to carefully select your mono for that.

Cheers
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Old 11-03-2012, 19:51   #28
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Re: Lagoon Comparison

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Otia,
Would not think there would be any issue with a Pacific crossing in a Lagoon 380 or similar cats the following typical trade route avoiding cyclone seasons. Plenty have done it.
It can be done.
Many things can be done, some have rowed across the Atlantic...
I would not do it, not after my experience this past October.
But what I think is not important. If you want to do it just do it well informed and prepared; you are on your own out there.
I feel we are steeling this thread. We sd go back to the initial question about the Lagoons.
One comment, the L380 surprised me by its toughness. It took so much pounding, sometimes I would jump in my bed and hit the ceiling (in the aft cabin)...
It's made tough.
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Old 11-03-2012, 20:07   #29
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Re: Lagoon Comparison

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It can be done.
Many things can be done, some have rowed across the Atlantic...
I would not do it, not after my experience this past October.
But what I think is not important. If you want to do it just do it well informed and prepared; you are on your own out there.
I feel we are steeling this thread. We sd go back to the initial question about the Lagoons.
One comment, the L380 surprised me by its toughness. It took so much pounding, sometimes I would jump in my bed and hit the ceiling (in the aft cabin)...
It's made tough.
Seaworthiness of the 380 I believe is relevant to the question asked but I am surprised you compare it with rowing the Altantic.

You clearly consider it inadequate for the Pacific the first time I have heard that sumation from a user on CF.

I would be hitting my head a bit also a factor for me to consider.
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Old 11-03-2012, 20:55   #30
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Re: Lagoon Comparison

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this is absolutely very dangerous to be in bad weather with a catamaran and i mean this problem concern all of them
Oh dear...this really can't be left standing. Our own experience (very limited by comparison to many others here, of course) includes ~30000nm (~16000nm on our L440, including traversing the Med in winter and crossing the Atlantic; the Caribbean; the Pacific; and the Tasman in winter) with at least several severe gales along the way, all handled safely. We don't go looking for bad weather, but the prospect is always there on 'blue water'...and there are plenty of very seaworthy 'blue water' cats out there, just as there are both seaworthy and not-so-seaworthy monohulls.

The simple "very dangerous to be in bad weather in (any) catamaran" statement is -- pardon the colour -- crap.

...and as for the various negative remarks about the flybridge design, we won't go into each negative aspect mentioned -- Every one is accompanied by both a sound design response and some advantage to the flybridge -- but instead let's just suggest the neutral position that, like just about any other design 'feature', it's horses-for-courses...each to their own. We were sceptical about the flybridge at first, but we are now 100% converted...and we noted too that our two professional crew (both hard-core and very very experienced monohull sailors) for our Sardinia-Sydney 'delivery' voyage both ended that voyage singing the praises of the flybridge.

For our OP, we join the chorus of L440 owners who embrace our vessel design. In our case, we sailed (either on charters or test sails) many (at least 20) other cats, both production and one-offs, over ~4yrs of searching. Our Lagoon sailing comparisons included the 380, 400 and 440 models (not the 410 or 420, altho we did step aboard a 410) and of those the 440 was the superior sailor, but our only performance criteria was light-air sailing. For space and comfort, it was pretty much a lock-step preference, i.e. the larger the vessel, the more the space and comfort...although the 440 really leaped ahead of the rest (including the non-Lagoon vessels) with the flybridge, the forward cockpit and almost unbelievable room inside the volumunous hulls.

We also embrace the earlier post to the effect that owning a vessel within a major brand production line will assist in resale...although we would temper that by also noting that being one of many vessels of the same design will also mean that there will be a fairly well defined market value range on re-sale. So we expect to be able to sell our L440 relatively easily by comparison to a custom build, but we also expect its value will be largely determined by the value of other L440's on the market at that time.

Our best tip for our OP...? Take your time. We learned SOOOO much during our search phase, both about the available choices and (perhaps more importantly?) about our own preferences and priorities.
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