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Old 28-11-2010, 19:41   #61
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I've just came across with a cat brand -Seaboater. I guess they're based in USA and their solar hybrid 63 cat looks really promising. What do you think, perhaps a rival to Lagoon?

SeaBoater model: catamaran63
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Old 28-11-2010, 19:57   #62
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That's crazytalk! Impressive.
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Old 29-11-2010, 10:20   #63
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Hi, MehmetCan

If You are seriously considering the acquisition of the cat in 60 ft range for circumnavigation, I think You should closely examine the following three boats:

http://www.sunreef-yachts.com/model-exterior,Single-Deck-Catamaran,29,sunreef-58-catamaran.html

http://www.sunreef-yachts.com/model-exterior,Single-Deck-Catamaran,42,sunreef-62.html

http://www.sunreef-yachts.com/model-interior,Single-Deck-Catamaran,2,Sunreef-64-Modern-Design.html

First reason:
The Sunreefs are produced on semi custom basis, so Yu can have a boat which will really suit Your demands - not small thing for Uour planned cruise.

Second reason:
The company has now a worldwide charter commitements (in the matter of fact they grew up from the charter business) and I think they can also deliver after sale support worldwide.

Third reason:
Sunreefs are designed and built with long distance cruising very much in mind. They can be not so fast as some other brands, but are really sturdy seaboats. I was in the crew of one of their boats on round the Europe winter passage, and I can tell that one comes to appreciate the boat when North Sea or Biscay Bay greenwater is flushing over flybridge, but the boat take all the punishment without any failures.

The only real problem I know about Sunreefs was related to the shape of the bottom of the bridge on older Sunreef 60, causing the excessive banging on the high waves, but this problem was remedied on all models now in production.

Fourth reason:
Sunreef lost some sales in two previous years (for charter companies in the Med) due to the credit crunch, and their production capacity is probably still larger than sales - it make an opportunity for a bargain buy I suppose (just suppose - of course).

Best regards
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Old 29-11-2010, 10:41   #64
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Dear Doublewhisky; as a matter of fact you've addressed another boat that's in my mind. Sunreefs' interiors look really fantastic and they also have the option to build in aluminum -which is great since that makes the boat even sturdier (even for arctic conditions). But I guess it would be redundant, since I wouldn't want to be in a cat at the poles. The used Sunreefs look great too. It's a tough choice for sure!
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Old 29-11-2010, 11:03   #65
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Hi
If buying used one:
Avoid old S 60s (wrong bridge shape issue) and one specific S 72 (first name "Mamma Mia", first flag Greece), rebuilt after almost sinking on the rocks on Aegean with massive structural damage (almost sure irreparable to some extent).
Cheers
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Old 29-11-2010, 11:19   #66
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Internet is sure a great thing, especially for lemons! Thanks a lot...
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Old 05-12-2010, 18:55   #67
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Remember, new models always hold the most value for the longest

Quote:
Originally Posted by Garold View Post
Mehmet

Not sure if this is a wind up or not because most people who look at such a large invesment (if that word can be used in the same sentence as 'yacht') have built up over a number of years and often through several brands.

My opinion does not extend very far at this level. I have been on the 620 twice now and was impressed both times. The quality of finish is definitely better than the rest of the Lagoon range and the space is incredible. However, it looks to me like a small crew of maybe at least 3 people would be necessary all the time. The sail handling is all on motorised winches and so much of the strain is easily taken. However, in a rough sea, when lines get snagged or equipment fails, I'm not sure how one person on the fore/bridge deck would manage.

Other brands? I did view a Privilege 745 earlier this year. The finish was more motor-boat quality and it was very impressive (even had bath). Whatsmore, the salesman told me that his colleague moved it onto the berth on his own! (bowthrusters?). But I believe that the price is very different from the Lagoon.

Other brands? No idea at this level really. However, we have sailed on a smaller Fontaine Pajot. And we chose the Lagoon. The FPs are a bit more sporty in set up and frankly didn't suit me. But it may suit you.

Sounds like you will have to spend some money on short charter breaks to try them out. As for private jets mentioned by someone earlier..... I believe that they are significantly more expensive to run than yachts, so probably the next step up the ladder!

Just by the by, there are couple of newer Lagoon models (450 & 560) coming out that may be of interest. Go to the website. Same style, similar features, bit easier to handle, and surely still big enough unless you have ten kids. And cheaper too. Remember, new models always hold the most value for the longest (this may not be an issue for you but is for me certainly).

Cheers

Garold

are you kidding me? too funny!
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Old 06-12-2010, 00:08   #68
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Hi, MehmetCan,

If you are seriously considering the acquisition of the cat in 60 ft range for circumnavigation, maybe you would be interested by the following boat:

Catamaran Alibi - catamaran manufacturer, constructeur de catamaran

I heard they are also building a 63 length… The Alibis are entirely customizable, so you can have a boat which will really suit your demands.
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Old 06-12-2010, 06:39   #69
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Originally Posted by Roc Chambeau View Post
are you kidding me? too funny!
Funny?

Having bought several new boats, my experience is that buying the first of a new model always seems better than buying the last of an old model. So, after say 3 years, the new model purchased will still be a current model if one wishes to sell. Seems to work the same with cars, motorhomes, motorbikes etc.

I think that you may have misunderstood and thought that I was suggesting that new boats lose less than second hand boats. I was not.

If your personal experience suggests otherwise, then I'd be interested.

Cheers

Garold
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Old 06-12-2010, 07:19   #70
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it's that fly, floats, or ... thing - almost.

As I don't make a dime with this advice, (and I'm not suggesting you do either) but will toss in my 2 cents worth. First off, my experience is considerable and varied, but no means complete. MMA to start, big boats with various configurations and objectives, sales, brokering, survey, and refit.

7 years ago the wife and I purchased a large cat and went into the crewed charter business. We paid X, added 15% for touch-ups to start and each year after. Netted avg of 50% per year and now could resell the assets for purchase price. Pretty good returns I'd say, not to mention the great new horizons we've witnessed.

"the fact that I know I don't know nothing at least means I know something"

- new boat purchases are for fools and egomaniacs.

Lately I'm working on a plan to purchase a Cessna 182 and have it pay for itself. I never knew that planes were cheaper to own than boats!

All the best.
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Old 06-12-2010, 14:11   #71
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Originally Posted by Roc Chambeau View Post
As I don't make a dime with this advice, (and I'm not suggesting you do either) but will toss in my 2 cents worth. First off, my experience is considerable and varied, but no means complete. MMA to start, big boats with various configurations and objectives, sales, brokering, survey, and refit.

7 years ago the wife and I purchased a large cat and went into the crewed charter business. We paid X, added 15% for touch-ups to start and each year after. Netted avg of 50% per year and now could resell the assets for purchase price. Pretty good returns I'd say, not to mention the great new horizons we've witnessed.

"the fact that I know I don't know nothing at least means I know something"

- new boat purchases are for fools and egomaniacs.

Lately I'm working on a plan to purchase a Cessna 182 and have it pay for itself. I never knew that planes were cheaper to own than boats!

All the best.
So, as I suggested, you misunderstood my point.

If buying a new boat, then newer models will probably lose less money than older ones.

However, I do agree that buying second hand is probably wiser on yachts if your concern is loss on capital.

As for your suggestion that 'new boats are for fools and egomaniacs', you may be right (but also clearly and intentionally offensive). But new boats also present a solution to busy or inexperienced people. And maybe those that want a turnkey solution.

Since you earn your living from boats I defer to your experience. For those of us that are pleasure cruisers there is a slightly different set of objectives.

Cheers

Garold
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Old 06-12-2010, 15:45   #72
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I have looked this over at the Miami Boat show and it was a very nice boat, not sure how the after support is but the owners seemed very happy. Thing is a MONSTER for 50' and built out the door for 800's I believe. Way out of my budget but....

royalcapecatamarans
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Old 06-12-2010, 16:30   #73
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I have looked this over at the Miami Boat show and it was a very nice boat, not sure how the after support is but the owners seemed very happy. Thing is a MONSTER for 50' and built out the door for 800's I believe. Way out of my budget but....

royalcapecatamarans
She has a ton of room in her, but looking at the width of the hulls I would imagine she is a dog under sail
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Old 06-12-2010, 20:30   #74
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I would think a guy who sells jets would be a little more performance minded
http://www.gunboat.com/safari.php

This one will probably be a smoker too
2010 Morrelli & Melvin MM-62 Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com

Neither of these have that “I want” characteristic to me, but then I haven’t seen “my boat” yet so I’m sketching out my own. It’ll be 55% to 60% of these in length and fit in a shipping container so I can fly out to sail it once it arrives. (Inspired by Cat2Fold)

I think the older Lagoons have much nicer lines than the newer, boxy looking boats.
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Old 07-12-2010, 07:26   #75
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I guess I serve a different master. If the previous posters are indeed serious about value in boats and not im-posters or salesmen then they need to take a new look at the yacht market. For example, I know of a 2002 Atlantic 55 that was totally "tricked-out" by a deep-pocket professional only 2 years ago and now can be had for around 700. That has been the finest hot-rod world cruiser I've seen. (The fella was set to buy the GB62, but was dissuaded by its' current captain after a 7 day charter/survey to buy). Point is, these deals exist, but don't look to brokers to find them!
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