Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 02-12-2010, 12:58   #16
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Toronto
Posts: 223
AFAIC the real issue is that the stern drive dislocated, regarless if it caused by a dingy painter or not.
__________________

__________________
Efraim is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2010, 13:03   #17
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 3,016
Images: 4
Quote:
Originally Posted by Southern Star View Post
...and using a proper painter that floats.
You'd rely on a floating painter to keep itself out of the prop?
__________________

__________________
daddle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2010, 13:29   #18
Marine Service Provider
 
Factor's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Brisbane Australia
Boat: Corsair Dash MKII
Posts: 4,080
Quote:
Originally Posted by DoubleWhisky View Post
So... multihulls CAN sink???
Yes this model of this brand built by this company. But go right ahead and inappropriately extrapolate one incident to all. Those that understand the principles of logic will see the flaw in your statement and those that don't" , well it probably doesn't matter.
__________________
Factor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2010, 13:46   #19
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Netherlands / Brazil
Boat: 50ft mono hull. SOLD!!
Posts: 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sparohok View Post
Well let's be clear. Thread title says "sunk," first post says "almost sunk," later post says "both hulls flooded." You'd need a lot more information to conclude whether or not this boat was actually in any danger of sinking per se.

Martin
If you read the reports it wasn't sunk completly because they managed to beach themselves thanks to the local area knowledge of the Thai crew.
__________________
Erik C is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2010, 13:54   #20
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Brisbane
Boat: deboated
Posts: 672
Quote:
Originally Posted by DoubleWhisky View Post
So... multihulls CAN sink???
I have been told numeros times this cannot happen and I believe everything I am told
__________________
meyermm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2010, 13:56   #21
Elvish meaning 'Far-Wanderer'
 
Palarran's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Me - Michigan / Boat - Tenerife
Boat: 56' Fountaine Pajot Marquises
Posts: 2,641
The issue of a water-tight bulkhead that leaks is a problem for me. I have this EXACT same issue on my Fountaine Pajot. They ran all the electrical, plumbing, and refrigeration/air conditioning lines through the bulkhead in large pvc pipes. Those pipes are approximately 18" above the water line so if the boat was flooded that far, it'd be all over. We are finalizing some wiring changes right now and when it's done I'll seal the ends of the pvc with something. Even a rag would prevent enough water coming through so that the bilge pumps in the main cabin could keep up. But water tight? Not hardly!

Another instance of this for those who remember is the FP cat that had a whale surface under it's saildrive and holed the engine compartment. That led to flooding the other engine compartment. This is the one where the freighter ramed the boat. While in that case I still can't figure out how the water got high enough to transfer from one side of the boat to the other, regardless, the boat was lost.

IMO it is kind of BS that the thread states the boat sunk though.
__________________
Not all who wander are lost

http://www.sailblogs.com/member/palarran/
Palarran is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2010, 13:56   #22
CF Adviser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Wherever our boat is; Playa Zaragoza, Isla Margarita
Boat: 1994 Solaris Sunstream 40
Posts: 2,439
Daddle, when anchoring or using reverse on my current boat I always keep my inflatable on the davits. However, I still use a painter that floats based upon my past experience on boats without davits - and yes, even in reverse, I have never had my props foul a floating painter. I suppose it could happen in a power boat with outdrives tilted up part way, or with props close to the surface, or if accelerating quickly in reverse, but I have never had the floating line submerge so as to make contact with my propellers.

Factor, in spite of faulty construction, this catamaran DID NOT sink. However, I get your point. I also note that multihullers were not posting similar sasrcastic or derisive comments in a number of recent threads concerning monohulls that DID, in fact sink. Best to just let it go.

Brad
__________________
Southern Star is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2010, 14:10   #23
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Brisbane
Boat: deboated
Posts: 672
Page one of the multihull operating manual states in large letters "Cats will not sink" on the last page, it states the definition of sinking is that the top of the mast must be at least one metre below the surface. This is regardless of any other situation including the fact that you now have a pet shark for company. I hope this resolves the issue.
__________________
meyermm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2010, 14:28   #24
Freelance Delivery Skipper..
 
boatman61's Avatar

Community Sponsor
Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: UK/Portugal
Posts: 20,188
Images: 2
Send a message via Skype™ to boatman61
pirate

Quote:
Originally Posted by Palarran View Post
The issue of a water-tight bulkhead that leaks is a problem for me. I have this EXACT same issue on my Fountaine Pajot. They ran all the electrical, plumbing, and refrigeration/air conditioning lines through the bulkhead in large pvc pipes. Those pipes are approximately 18" above the water line so if the boat was flooded that far, it'd be all over. We are finalizing some wiring changes right now and when it's done I'll seal the ends of the pvc with something. Even a rag would prevent enough water coming through so that the bilge pumps in the main cabin could keep up. But water tight? Not hardly!

Another instance of this for those who remember is the FP cat that had a whale surface under it's saildrive and holed the engine compartment. That led to flooding the other engine compartment. This is the one where the freighter ramed the boat. While in that case I still can't figure out how the water got high enough to transfer from one side of the boat to the other, regardless, the boat was lost.

IMO it is kind of BS that the thread states the boat sunk though.
So how come you guys don't just pump some non absorbent expanding foam into the pipes... a lot easier and cheaper than a rewire... and just as effective..
Or is that solution to 'MONO'
__________________


Born To Be Wild
boatman61 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2010, 14:41   #25
Armchair Bucketeer
 
David_Old_Jersey's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 10,013
Images: 4
Quote:
Originally Posted by Southern Star View Post
The real issue is that NO ONE should use a dinghy painter that doesn't float. Full stop.
That's a cup of coffee I won't be getting back

Cheers
__________________
David_Old_Jersey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2010, 14:57   #26
Sponsoring Vendor

Community Sponsor
Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Stuart Fla/KeyWest
Boat: Voyage 500, Silent Faith
Posts: 76
I do not think Lagoon will cover the loss, Not after some stories I've heard but I sure hope the boat insurance will cover the loss, Can't imagine losing a million bucks because of a mistake.
craig boorman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2010, 15:35   #27
Senior Cruiser
 
schoonerdog's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: May 2004
Location: annapolis
Boat: st francis 44 mk II catamaran
Posts: 1,174
Images: 4
CE certification means watertight bulkheads? From what I remember reading, CE certification meant that there were specs for an "offshore" rated boat such as hatches capable of handling a wave, I don't remember anything regarding bulkheads. No monohull has waterproof bulkheads separating different sections of the boat to ensure structural bouyancy sufficient enough to allow the loss of any one compartment. In fact, the only regulation I'm aware of, the "Safe Return to Port" applies to large passenger carriers (I think above 100 meters), and was only put into effect for new designs within the past couple years. And yes, any boat constructed without structural bouyancy sufficient to allow the loss of any one compartment will sink if a large compartment is compromised. Some catamarans have this with large water tight compartments forward and aft, privilege, the prout 45.... but certainly not all of them. I don't think even "most" of them have it. I've got a picture of a lagoon 440 coming up with scuba divers on the bow to prove the point.
schoonerdog is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2010, 15:38   #28
Registered User
 
s/v Moondancer's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Fiji but heading for Alaska
Boat: Tayana 55
Posts: 1,223
When we were seeking a boat 'saildrive' was one of the thing on our list of things not to have.

Stupid idea to cut that big of a hole in the bottom of a boat!
__________________
Phil

"Remember, experience only means that you screw-up less often."
s/v Moondancer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2010, 15:54   #29
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Hawaii
Boat: Atlantic 42 Catamaran
Posts: 293
Quote:
Originally Posted by boatman61 View Post
So how come you guys don't just pump some non absorbent expanding foam into the pipes... a lot easier and cheaper than a rewire... and just as effective..
Or is that solution to 'MONO'
That's what I did... It's a mixed blessing. It's a PIA when you want to run something but it does provide a decent vapor/water/sound barrier.

I use a floating dingy painter and I think it is a good idea -- it's also nice if you're towing the dink while snorkeling. I'm not sure a floating painter is certain protection from fouling and it doesn't protect you from other junk. I had a net wrap around one of our saildrives half way between Honolulu and San Fran and had to go swimming to cut it loose. If it had also grabbed the rudder I suppose it might have torqued the sail drive or rudder post... In my case the engine stalled instantly which I suppose is another good reason to have modestly sized axillary engines. With a proper saildrive prop I think the hub is supposed to separate before you get forces sufficient to tear the drive out of the hull too... But maybe not... This is not only a saildrive problem though. I've seen incidents where traditional prop struts have ripped the bottoms out of boats resulting in catastrophic flooding.

Is there a link to the details of this accident?

Tom
__________________
tsmwebb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2010, 16:33   #30
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Hawaii
Boat: Atlantic 42 Catamaran
Posts: 293
Quote:
Originally Posted by schoonerdog View Post
CE certification means watertight bulkheads? From what I remember reading, CE certification meant that there were specs for an "offshore" rated boat such as hatches capable of handling a wave, I don't remember anything regarding bulkheads. No monohull has waterproof bulkheads separating different sections of the boat to ensure structural bouyancy sufficient enough to allow the loss of any one compartment. In fact, the only regulation I'm aware of, the "Safe Return to Port" applies to large passenger carriers (I think above 100 meters), and was only put into effect for new designs within the past couple years. And yes, any boat constructed without structural bouyancy sufficient to allow the loss of any one compartment will sink if a large compartment is compromised. Some catamarans have this with large water tight compartments forward and aft, privilege, the prout 45.... but certainly not all of them. I don't think even "most" of them have it. I've got a picture of a lagoon 440 coming up with scuba divers on the bow to prove the point.
I'm not sure what you're saying here. Many small monohulls have a collision bulkhead and/or a sacrificial bow. On larger vessels with multiple compartments there are typically watertight bulkheads with fittings between them. In some matterial conditions the compartments will be isolated and many ships are designed so that they can have a flood in one compartment without sinking (and ususally with a plan for maintaining sufficient stability etc) so long as the fittings are properly secured. This is not new. Most monohull ships have waterproof bulkheads. Some monohull yachts and race boats (eg. VOR 60/70, IMOC, Mini 6.5, etc) do to. So what do you mean "no monohull has wterproof bulkheads...?" Also, a yacht may be designed to float with it's compartment(s) flooded if it is built from sufficiently buoyant materials (eg Elan yachts). This is the case for many, though certainly not all multihulls.

Tom
__________________

__________________
tsmwebb is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
lagoon

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off




Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 23:34.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.