Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 27-10-2013, 17:15   #211
Registered User
 
nimblemotors's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Sacramento, California
Boat: Solar 40ft Cat :)
Posts: 1,557
Re: Lagoon 500 Nearly Sunk

Even a monohull will not sink if designed properly...
__________________

__________________
JackB
MiniMPPT Solar Controller
nimblemotors is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-10-2013, 21:05   #212
Registered User

Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Fethiye Turkey
Boat: Lagoon 440
Posts: 3,164
Re: Lagoon 500 Nearly Sunk

Neil after reading the report their is confusion about the term 'bulkhead' and the term 'floor'.

A bulkhead provides structural support and is used to compartmentalise areas of the hull to give sub-divisions for the purposes of containment be it water or fire.

A floor is the vertical support beneath the sole, these are not a watertight item.
Lagoons cove and glass the end bulkheads into place to give the subdivision required, they then paint them grey on both sides and affix mouldings or carpeted panels over to give the desired internal effect.

The floors are gumped in with goo as are the longitudal decorative bulkheads say around the toilets and cabins.

When Lagoon build their boats it moves onto the contractors who fit the aircon watermakers etc It in my experience is the crux of the problem as these people fit without care ie holes drilled anywhere.

The report is not one i'd front up with in a legal battle because it draws opinions rather than facts i.e. emotive. The internal furniture and it's bonding has nothing to do with why water transferred from an are that should be watertight to a much larger area that you simply do not wish to have filled with water.

Mind you the water ingress into the large centre section was through small leaks around wiring, a limber hole at the bilge apex and likely through the fire-fighting hole in the ER Bulkhead.

The above is just my opinion drawn from what i know about Lagoons and my lifetime as a boat/shipbuilder and having provided legal matter for defending claims for various Aussie insurance companies..

I'm sure you will agree that if water is entering a compartment after an incident your priority is to find the leak and jam anything into the leak to slow the flow and head for hopefully a calm shallow area.

None of this and what i've said is rocket science HOWEVER some on this forum tend to deem themselves as the 'knowledge holders' to counter this i did a basic buoyancy calc on our slightly smaller Lagoon and 'hey presto' the calc's match good practice in that the spaces bouyancy exceeded the wet weight.

Cheers
__________________

__________________
"Political correctness is a creeping sickness that knows no boundaries"
Lagoon4us is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-10-2013, 22:18   #213
Registered User
 
neilpride's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: in the world
Boat: csy 44 tall rig.
Posts: 3,099
Re: Lagoon 500 Nearly Sunk

Yes , but there is full bulkheads around the cabin , at least 2? or 3? and the report is clear about 2 or 3 bulkheads glued with compound in both sides and only glassed in the bottom, pictures number 8 , 9 and 10 i think show it very clear, now no idea why the builder choose such a weird thing to atach the bulkheads and no idea if the new lagoons are made the same way, i dont believe the cracks are related with the sunking but more likely by the delivery from the original location , it just take a couple of nasty gales to get the plexus cracked,,,

Link with Pics.http://www.lagoonlitigation.com/wp-c...Report-Pic.pdf
__________________
neilpride is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-10-2013, 22:36   #214
Registered User

Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Fethiye Turkey
Boat: Lagoon 440
Posts: 3,164
Re: Lagoon 500 Nearly Sunk

Neil their are no watertight bulkheads in any production GRP Catamaran that i know of other than the ER Bulkhead and forward crash bulkhead, if there were they would have dogged/latched locking arrangement in say 8 places OR they would only be accessible from above through a watertight hatch.

The bulkheads that are bonded with gump are cabinetry subdivisions where a wall is needed to accomodate a head or bedroom.

The area in the bilge below the sole in the accomodation is all one area water will flow to the keel which is the lowest point.

Now the ER Bulkhead in all Lagoons is totally glassed in place, the aft stateroom adjoins this bulkhead ie our Bed is attached to this bulkhead. If as is put forward in this thread the top of the bulkhead was open or gumped in place (i think Titanic was mentioned) the fume/heat smells entering this cabin from a hot engine would be horrendous.

The use of gump is a common method that Beneteau use to locate and secure the accomodation divisions/bulkheads, it works and yes it can crack. Last inspection i did showed no cracks evident, our boat is a 2007 model and we've sailed her hard this year.

A lot of what happens to a boat is down aftermarket, in some cases soon after delivery and these people can be very dodgy. I'm still changing/re-routing systems to make them more logical and shipshape after two years of ownership.

Cheers
__________________
"Political correctness is a creeping sickness that knows no boundaries"
Lagoon4us is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-10-2013, 22:58   #215
Registered User
 
neilpride's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: in the world
Boat: csy 44 tall rig.
Posts: 3,099
Re: Lagoon 500 Nearly Sunk

Okey, this is funy, you know that Lagoon in their website is still marketing watertight bulkheads ?? wonder what mean for the French dudes the word WATERTIGHT!!!!
__________________
neilpride is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-10-2013, 23:03   #216
Registered User

Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Fethiye Turkey
Boat: Lagoon 440
Posts: 3,164
Re: Lagoon 500 Nearly Sunk

That doesn't surprise me as they are arrogant by nature. The front crash bulkheads ie one each side are watertight, i have a leaky hatch above and the water has pooled in the bilge there, another job!

But the ER bulkhead has services through it, a limber hole in the bottom and a firefighting hole above the bed that has a plastic plug prior to me valving and sealing.

They should be saying ALMOST WATERTIGHT.

Cest la vie.......
__________________
"Political correctness is a creeping sickness that knows no boundaries"
Lagoon4us is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-10-2013, 18:47   #217
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Winter Bahamas - Summer BC
Boat: Lagoon 450, Bavaria Vision 40
Posts: 615
To throw in a 2012 L450.

Crash and engine room bulkheads are glassed in.

The penetrations for cables and hoses are pieces of large diameter pipe glassed into the bulkheads. After passing cables and hoses through the penetrations, the voids are filled with expanding foam. May not be water tight though. But a halfway decent bilge pump will keep up with the water ingress. This is one of the positions of water getting in.

All four compartments are draining into the bilge via a clear plastic hose about 50mm (2 inches) diameter. At the bilge-ends of the hoses are shut-off valves. I was told by my dealer to keep the ones from the engine room open. If the valves are open or the hoses are compromised, the water tight compartments will flood.
__________________

__________________
roetter is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
lagoon

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off




Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 01:07.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.