500: Lagoon 500 Nearly Sunk

[colemj]

C&C's own website. They only make 2 models now and seem focused on racing. Plexus wasn't available in the old C&C days - neither was 5200. Is this the only boat you are contesting?

I gave you 11 examples - all of whose websites you should be able to find on your own. I got my information straight from the construction detail descriptions and marketing materials on their websites. They were very clear, and very proud, about using Plexus for their hull-deck joints, as well as liners, grids, furniture, etc.

Oh, alright - start here: J/Boats- Better Sailboats for People Who Love Sailing. they have 14 current-production models bonding their decks with Plexus. You can find the other companies yourself.

Mark

[neilpride]

But come on, you say C&C is using plexus this days for hull to deck joint , gime a link... I will say C&C dont use any plexus stuff for hull to deck joint.

J Boats, i chek the link and i dont found anything related to Plexus, not in resources, models or history about the company, can you please drive me to the right tab or place in their website??

[neilpride]

This is writed in practical sailor about the J32 , just figurate a mix between 5200 and plexus, wow...


The hull-deck joint is an overlapping flange bonded with a combination of 3M 5200 and Plexus adhesive. Deck hardware is through-bolted and sealed with Sikaflex. Because the main bulkhead supports the chainplates, mast bearing beam and keel support grid, it is solid fiberglass in loadbearing areas; it is bonded to the hull using non-woven biaxial glass fabrics. Owners report no flexing of this joint.

Is the only thing i can found about plexus used in JBOATS.

[colemj]

The J32 is not a current model and hasn't been produced for 10 years.

Here is the link for the J24: J/24 Technical Specifications

Go to any other of their models, click on tech specs, and you will find I am correct.

Alternately, you can simply google plexus hull deck joint to find many, many boats produced this way.

Again, you are making your point about nobody is doing this because you don't believe one of my 11 examples? I will concede to you C&C because I won't do all of your work. So forget about that one and pick away at the other 10.

Mark

[Lagoon4us]

The forward and aft watertight bulkheads in a 440 are totally glassed in place the only places Plexus is used is on the floors and cabin accommodation dividers. there are only 4 true bulkheads in a 440, i have no reson to believe the 50 would have more.

Most boats that do a crossing crack the Plexus as far as i've seen.

If you buy a new boat Lagoon don't enter into direct contact with you they will always defer to their dealers for contacting clients. Seems even in litigation they do the same.

Cheers

[colemj]

I don't think fixing structural bulkheads is a good use for Plexus.

Mark

[Lagoon4us]

Is any builder actually doing that Mark?

[Lagoon4us]

Just so we are clear, a bulkhead is as defined in the reprint below, i've looked at the pictures of the 50 in question and it shows some shocking workmanship that no one would be proud of HOWEVER i saw nil photos of the forward or aft bulkheads that form the watertight divisions forward of the engine space and aft of the bow locker/cabin.

What i did see in the crappy pictures were floors and cabin sub-divisions in all their glory. The glasswork on these bulkheads in a 440 are fully coved and glassed, next 50 i see i'm off to ask if i can check and photograph these bulkheads BECAUSE the boat needs them structurally and i find it hard to believe glassing is non-existant on a 50 as it makes no sense when you consider the 440 is glassed.

Cheers.

bulk·head (blkhd)
n.
1.
a. One of the upright partitions dividing a ship into compartments and serving to add structural rigidity and to prevent the spread of leakage or fire.
b. A partition or wall serving a similar purpose in a vehicle, such as an aircraft or spacecraft.
2. A wall or an embankment, as in a mine or along a waterfront, that acts as a protective barrier.
3. Chiefly New England A horizontal or sloping structure providing access to a cellar stairway.

[colemj]

Originally Posted by Lagoon4us

Is any builder actually doing that Mark?

No idea. Neilpride is the one who claimed that Lagoon was fixing their bulkheads with Plexus, not me.

I'm the hull-deck joint guy

Mark

[Lagoon4us]

LMAO as i said before there's a huge difference in using gump on floors and accommodation divisions as against a bulkhead.

Go the joints!

Cheers

[neilpride]

Grady white and other small production boats maybe, i only found the info about the j32 , and he mention 5200 to, now go ahead and enlight us where is used 5200 in the flange hull to deck joint and where is the plexus. no idea? C&C use 5200 this days , and yes the lagoon 500 mentioned in this post if you visit the survey report atached with pictures you can see cristal clear how the bulkhead is mounted, lots of sika, plexus and glass in some places, even the port bulkhead got only plexus or a epoxy compound cracked , no fiberglass at all, is just awful....

[neilpride]

Here is the link... http://www.lagoonlitigation.com/wp-c...chard-Howe.pdf

[colemj]

Originally Posted by neilpride

Grady white and other small production boats maybe, i only found the info about the j32 , and he mention 5200 to, now go ahead and enlight us where is used 5200 in the flange hull to deck joint and where is the plexus.

Did you not follow my direct link to the Jboat specs containing the following statement for all 14 of their currently produced models: "Hull and deck joint bonded with Plexus structural adhesive."?

Are you having problems finding the manufacturer websites for the other 9 builders I mentioned?

Can you not even accomplish a simple google search on the phrase "plexus hull deck joint"?

Here you go: Let me google that for you

Mark

[neilpride]

Ok, i give it up... The J 32 Spec define the hull to deck joint as a mix between 5200 and plexus, Alerion no idea, btw is a dingy, C&C dont use plexus in their famous toe rail joints not even the hull to deck joint, and is simple, Plexus is more expensive than poly , it dry hard and dont have a good elongation and is not much flexible , deck to hull joints in most production boats work in a seaway, flex , now if some builders are playing with that stuff in their hull to deck joints , fine.. if you have a leak tell me how can you fix it? the surface area in most hull to deck flanges is very small, plexus is a adhesive not a sealant, thats why most hull to deck joints this days are trough bolted, Plexus crack if is distorted , i found in the net Plexus used in many motoryachts or small power boats, could be a good metod for this kind of boats, but a sailboat is another history, putting the rail in the water and fall in a wave put a tremendous stress in the deck hull joint.

I use methacralyte adhesive in 2 occasions, one for building a water tank , gluing the top cover in a flange, and the other when we rebuilt a shower pan liner ..

Moder science adhesives , yeah, well in many aplications work excellent in others no, even the only way this days to glue a full grid liner to inside of the hull is using Huge amounts of plexus is not the best technique but is the only one until today, and using Plexus in Bulkhead atachment like Lagoon do in the past not sure actually is just a cut saving in the production line ending in a nightmare if you want to repair the bulkheads. Ciao..

[colemj]

Again, the J32 hasn't been produced in 10 years. The current line of Jboats - all 14 models of them spanning 22-43' use Plexus to bond their hull-deck joint. Did you even click on any of the direct links I provided? I can't help you any more than that.

Alerion makes models in 20', 28' 33' 38' and 41'. You have a strange idea of dinghies (see picture of one). Perhaps you are not as familiar with some boats, but those boats are very popular on the US East coast and are constructed by TPI. Maybe you have heard of that company?

Besides those two makers of a combined 20 models, I listed 8 others making 40+' boats that you refuse to both believe, or to actually go look for yourself. It's not just "some builders playing with that stuff".

I don't know why you are fixated on C&C - they make only two racing models now and the boats you are using as an example are 30 years old - before Plexus was around.

Plexus joints are also through-bolted, they just are not glass-tabbed. They do not flex in a seaway anymore than a glass-tabbed boat. You don't "fix" one of these anymore or less than you fix a glass-tabbed joint.

I can't make it any simpler than I have and think you are purposefully being obtuse to avoid having to change your stated opinions.

Now I give up.

Mark