450: Lagoon 450 Modifications

[katsumi]

Hi Steve
Congratulations on your new boat. Just been following you posts, regarding cable run for the Solar Panels, we did a simular installation and we just ran the cables for the solar panels via the same route as the stern light cable through the cavity in the overhead, we had to remount the stern light on the back of the solar panels anyway. So we fitted a watertight cable gland in place of the stern light.

[Emerald Sea]

Katsumi. That simplifies thing! I'll definitely look at that option, thanks.

Where did you mount your MPPT controller?

Steve
Emerald Sea

[katsumi]

Hi Steve
Ideally You want to mount your MPPT controller as close t the Batteries as you can to keep the cables from MPPT to batteries short to limit losses. Our boat is the L400 so your layout may be a little different to ours. Anyhow I ran the cables from the panels through the stern light hole through the outside overhead cavity over top of saloon sliding door, there are access caps in a few places in the overheads for access to fastenings. From the overhead down through the cable space behind the helm there is a cavity which ends up down in the port aft cabin where the battery bank is under the bed, there is a big void space between cabin and inboard hull (technical space with access panel in the wall) just in behind there is where I mounted the controller then the cable to the batteries runs under the floor to the batteries under the bed. I think the L450 would have some similarities to the L400, an electricians plastic snake would come in handy for pulling cable through, I just used VB cord and a small stainless steel nut worked well.
Have you picked a controller yet? We put an Australian made unit in company called GSL great unit, they make them for 4WDs, I also used standard solar panels 4x 190 watts, I wired in series and parallel so we have 48 vlts going into the MPPT unit which can handle up to about 90 vlts. Even on overcast days we are never short of power, we have 3 fridges, Tvs etc (Watermaker on the way) may have to add a solar panel. My crew don't understand conserving energy yet.
Hope this is of some help.

[roetter]

Originally Posted by Emerald Sea

Rolf,

Thanks. I'll be back on the boat tomorrow (as every day) and will examine a cable route similar as you have done. I have plenty glands for the penetrations.



Where did you mount your MPPT? I'll guess and say where the aircon locker was. If you have it under the bed, does it humm?



Thanks for the offer for your CAD dwgs however Ive got a set myself (for mounting 3x 327W modules). Ive attached these for info. There are a few amendments to these dwgs i.e. the Al frame has now become 316L angle simply as the fabricator didn't have any Al welders. Again, thanks



PS: The L450 is GREAT!

Why do you need to weld? Angle bars have very little bending stiffness. That means that the profiles have to be very heavy. I have done nothing like that. Almost all frames I see on boats are over designed. If you look at how the panels are installed on roofs you will see that two cross bars are enough. The solar panel frame is stiff enough to carry all other loads. My design is extremely light which is what you want on a catamaran.

[roetter]

MPPT is under bed close to the batteries. Yes it hums, but not more than the inverter fan that is in the engine room. Also, it will only hum during the day.

[markv]

HI..new to this forum, but not new to Lagoon. I had a 440 for 7 years 2005 to 2012, now looking at getting a 450 in the next few months. I had an array very similar to this and it served us well, but we only had 640w in 4 panels, and 900Ah of AGM batteries. I would prefer to NOT get a large generator and instead spend the money on LiON batteries and solar panels... and in place of the Onan generator up front I want to install 2 x 12v 85litre watermakers.

I am looking to do exactly what you have done, just trying to figure out how to get LiOn batteries to the Lagoon factory so we can install them there just after handover. Pity they cannot just leave the supplied batteries out, waste of money...

Still trying to get a handle on the layout of the 450, but what are the alternative locations for storing the batteries?..under the banquette in the main cockpit area?..

Would need to get 2 x Outback Flex 80 MPPTs?..(Outback Power Inc. - Charge Controllers FLEXmax 80).

What BMS and chargers do you have?.. I may have missed what your setup was...:-)...and if possible can you share your CAD drawings so we can use create the same array...

many thanks
mark

[markv]

I was asking for a quote from a supplier and he says you can only have one solar controller connected to one bank at the same time. To quote him:

-----
We are sorry but your set up is not going to work this way. You must have only 1 controller connected to 1 battery bank at all times.

Several solar controllers connected to the same battery bank will not work, and it might damage your batteries and controllers themselves.

One of these 60A controllers can work with all of your solar panels, but only when your battery bank is 48V. It cannot work with your panels when the battery bank is 12V.
----

I 'm still learning - it was easier when we had only 640W of solar on my my previous 440, now have to rethink a few things..

Anyway, just curious how you have set it up.. I thought you had set up one bank of 1400?..

On another note, been looking at Sinopoly 700Ah batteries, I can get them from HK but wondering if I can pick them up in Europe...

[roetter]

That is BS. You can run multiple solar controllers on the same bank at the same time. They do not I amuse any problems.

The charger side of the solar controller is identical to a shore power charger. Even Lagoon hooks up two shore power chargers to the same bank as on the L450 with a 40A and 60A Cristec each.

[markv]

I will be ordering 2 x 700AH 12v packs (9kw each), they already have the bms on each cell, and getting them delivered to Le Havre so we can pick them up and take them to the boat...I am hoping Robin Marine have the expertise to install it all together with our array...

On the solar panels, we are looking to see if we can get the Sunpower X21 345W but I cannot really source them anywhere. ET 300W Solars I think I can get in Europe..

[D&D]

Steve/Emerald Sea,

Congratulations on your new vessel!!

Plse excuse our slow response to your earlier post.

Our panels (2 x 327W SunPower E21's) are installed above the dinghy and attached to both the cockpit/traveler posts and the davits, with their height sufficient to allow fairly easy walking underneath. The bracket is 50mm diameter 316 stainless (to roughly match the appearance of the posts and davits) albeit only 2mm thick to keep them very light. As roetter noted, the panel fames are fairly rigid and the panels aren't very heavy so we felt they didn't need anything heavier in the bracket...and they have now travelled through some rough conditions just fine. We'll try to post some images, but it's very similar positioning to others here.

The cables are run through an elbow of stainless pipe (designed to look like the same cabling elbow at the base of the mast) into the cockpit roof and then down through the portside corner of the saloon and into the port aft cabin where the MPPT Controller (an Outback FLEXmax60) is positioned underneath the berth and immediately adjacent to the battery bank.

The Controller position was to minimize the cable runs from the Controller to the batteries, as katsumi suggested here. The Controller positioning effectively prevents reading the Controller information windows, but we installed our own battery moniter in the general instrument panel -- We used the space created when we removed the very inferior factory-installed moniter -- and our battery moniter provides all the power generation and consumption info we need.





Fair winds and following seas!

[Emerald Sea]

L450 Owners - SPARES
While I could start a new thread on this subject, I know this one will have the attention of 450 owners (and hopefully their interest) hence I suspect I'll get some good input.

What do you carry for Spares on your 450 other than the typical stuff ie filters, impellors, etc. Im after the non-typical spare items, as part of your expereince with malfunctions so far and what you see at necessary to carry. What would these be if you were to head out for extended cruising for 3 years?

Thanks
Steve
S/V Emerald Sea

[markv]

I have a Lagoon 450 on order, picking up end of July this year in France, and we are planning on a solar array on the back, extending the bimini. The 6 x 270W solar panels will be charging a Lithium Ion battery bank of 1400Ah via 2 Flex Max 80 controllers. To go for 300W panels, will result in the array being wider than the bimini which is 5.4m wide. I am happy enough with 1620W of panels..should be enough for us.

I had a Lagoon 440 for 6 years and for 4 years we had the same arrangement (no LiOn batteries tho), but with 640W in 4 panels.. will design in a similar way, but looking for accurate measurements..I have added some graphics done in sketchup (the square frames I want to have as 5cm diameter tubes)

If anyone has a Lagoon 450 at the moment, any advice most welcome, and if possible can you answer a couple questions and supply some measurements?. We will be chartering a Lagoon 450 in a months time in Thailand, but I am planning beforehand as well.

1 - Are the 2 SS poles supporting the bimini hollow, and if so, where they attach to the deck is it possible to take the wiring through into the main cabin bunk where the batteries are.

2 What is the diameter of the circular base plates on top of the Bimini (we want to replace them with the attachments of the solar panel array.

3. Distance between center of circular plates is 4.2m?
4. Distance between attachment points of back legs to the deck..to be bolted to the deck on the outside of the cleats. Worried a bit that they might be too close to the cleats, but then..we never used those cleats very much except to secure the dinghy

In the battery box, I think the batteries are 19cm wide by 50cm long, so we have 111.4cmx50cm to play with, i think there is a bit more space we can use, but i need to put 2 banks of 70x40cm in there, or split the LiOn cells up. Not sure how much more space we can use tho, as the drawers go right to the edge of that space?..

Any advice most welcome.. I can also modify the sketchup files if anyone wants their own versions..

[markv]

@D&D - I just noticed the solar panels you have are 1559x1046, which makes for a good array for us of 6 panels - it gives a total width of less than 4.8m including the frame which is what I was looking for..a bit more extended out the back but not much.. where did you get your panels from and how much were they?..I am having a problem sourcing Sunpower panels at the moment

[markv]

Just updating what we are planning on if anyone is following or commenting...

We have ordered a Quattro 12/3000/120 that will replace the 2 factory installed chargers, along with a VE.net monitor.

We will be ordering 16 x Calb 400Ah batteries, coming in from Poland - they fit in the space where the batteries currently fit, and leave some space at the end for the 2 x FlexMax 80 MPPTs

Also ordering 6 x 330W Benq Sunforte Solar Panels. Tried to get hold of Sunpower panels and it is proving difficult, so the Benq uses the same cells.

For the BMS, will use the Orion Junior that will handle up to 16 cells.

We will do some of the work ourselves, but hoping Robin Marine will be up to speed when the boat is commissioned in July and that they can work with us.

Any comments most welcome...learning as we go.

[downunder]

Originally Posted by markv

Just updating what we are planning on if anyone is following or commenting...

We have ordered a Quattro 12/3000/120 that will replace the 2 factory installed chargers, along with a VE.net monitor.

We will be ordering 16 x Calb 400Ah batteries, coming in from Poland - they fit in the space where the batteries currently fit, and leave some space at the end for the 2 x FlexMax 80 MPPTs

Also ordering 6 x 330W Benq Sunforte Solar Panels. Tried to get hold of Sunpower panels and it is proving difficult, so the Benq uses the same cells.

For the BMS, will use the Orion Junior that will handle up to 16 cells.

We will do some of the work ourselves, but hoping Robin Marine will be up to speed when the boat is commissioned in July and that they can work with us.

Any comments most welcome...learning as we go.

No that's some seriousiy serious electric supply.