450: Lagoon 450 and Helia 44 Comparison

[boom23]

We are also trying to decide between the Helia 44 and the Lagoon 450. My wife and I are planning to cruise the Med for extended periods of time. Life is too short and we do not want to waste it anymore.

We are looking for something that is comfortable for 2-6 people and easily manageable. I know I can handle a larger cat but I want something that will not be too difficult, for both of us. We believe that boats are for relaxing and I am not a racer.

To give you some background on us, this will be our first sailing boat. We just started to learn how to sail. We’ve owned a powerboat for over 20 years. We've had a 30ft Chris Craft, 42ft Ocean Alexander and now a 55ft Ferretti. I am handling the 55 singlehandedly with the help of Yacht Controller (remote control, an amazing device). I have not had any accidents (yet), just the occasional Oh-**** moments. We love powerboats but we are now looking to travel further. I know it will be a different experience and will require a LOT of learning but I thrive on learning new things... In addition, my wife promised to learn how to sail with me, and I am very excited about that. She gets overwhelmed by all the machinery on our boats.

We stepped on the 450 and we really liked the space and flybridge. Compared to powerboats, the flybridge is low to the water and allows for excellent views of the surrounding areas and seas. The 450 quality is passable, compared to the Ferretti, but we have no problem with that.

We are planning to visit the FP and Lagoon factories this year. Who can resist visiting France... Yes, we love food and travelling.

There are some areas that I would like some help comparing. There is info on the Internet but a lot of it is not current.

FP uses PVC foam core everywhere and the Lagoon balsa wood above the water line and solid fiberglass below. Both have benefits and drawbacks. I am more interested in Osmosis. I understand that both brands have had osmosis problems in the past but how do they compare now? I assume that both manufacturers have improved their techniques to eliminate problems and bad reputation.

How is the bridgedeck clearance? Is it comparable on these two cats? Is it a problem on either one?

How do the safety equipment compare? On my Ferretti, I have automatic fire extinguishers, extra bilge pumps and visual/audible alarms for everything. I don’t see any of these in the 44 or 450. Is this true, and how do you deal with that on an ocean cruising boat? I like to prepare for the worst and hope for the best.

That’s it for now... I am sure I will have more questions very soon...

Thank you for your input.

[careka]

Read all in here about 450 and also al in the FB topic on the Helia 44.
And test sail them.
And send IM to owners and ask them.

[boom23]

I already read everything in this and multihulls4us forums... There is no clear answer. Maybe that's the answer?

I plan to test sail both of them very soon. I could IM the owners but by starting a thread, many people will benefit from the information posted.

Originally Posted by careka

Read all in here about 450 and also al in the FB topic on the Helia 44.
And test sail them.
And send IM to owners and ask them.

[careka]

Good.
i did want a FB, wife wanted Lagoon, we got a Lagoon.
and today i am glad the admiral told me so.

my next will also be a Lagoon .

[Cotemar]

These may help.

http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...ml#post1055186

http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...ml#post1055401

http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...ml#post1056565

[boom23]

Believe me, I've read everything in this forum, more than once...

Here is the thing. There is a lot of bad press on Balsa wood but many companies still use it successfully. Does Lagoon have a good manufacturing process to eliminate osmosis problems? How about FP with PVC core?

How about bridgedeck clearance on these two boats? Any issues or spec comparison? How do they ride in rough seas?

Finally, how about preventative emergency equipment & alarms. Are these boats equiped with enough equipment? I understand that they both have liferafts but that should be the absolute last resort... Let's say there is an electrical fire in one of the engine rooms while I am cruising in bad weather. Will I find out when I see the smoke/flames or will an alarm sound before it gets too bad?

Thanks.

Originally Posted by Cotemar

These may help.

http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...ml#post1055186

http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...ml#post1055401

http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...ml#post1056565

[Cotemar]

1) Lagoon 45 and FP Helia 44 both have 28 inch bridge deck clearance. Both are ocean rated

2) Lagoons balsa core is not a problem just as FP Helia 44 foam core is not. Both processes have been used on thousands of boats

3) Lagoon 45 and FP Helia 44 both have liferafts as an option. They come with fire extinguishers no fire alarms.

[henryv]

I don't think that the different cores or the bridge clearance on these boats are issues that provide any reason to choose one over the other. I do think if you are sailing as a couple that the layout is a greater concern. The top level helm on the Lagoons results in more separation which in my view is less desirable with only two on board. I also find the FP helm allows much quicker access to the side deck to assist when docking.

[boom23]

It seems that the 450 and 44 are pretty similar, except the flybridge, weight, price, size, and core material.

I can't wait to see both in person at the factory this November! I am sure my wife (my admiral...) will help me decide.

[Bunt]

Am in same situation, narrowed it down to the L450 and FP44.

However, one thing I can't get my head around, the FP44 seems to have a very large gap between the helm and the winches, something I've not seen elsewhere. It seems basically you can't do so much as tack without either 1) calling for assistance every time or 2) running back and forth and mucking with an autohelm +/-15 etc. The L450 has the winches right next to the helm like every other boat I've seen, no need to run anywhere.

Can anyone enlighten me here, can you e.g. reach the winches from the helm on the FP44 without stepping around the console..?

Regards all,
Bunt

[downunder]

Originally Posted by boom23

Believe me, I've read everything in this forum, more than once...

Here is the thing. There is a lot of bad press on Balsa wood but many companies still use it successfully. Does Lagoon have a good manufacturing process to eliminate osmosis problems? How about FP with PVC core?

How about bridgedeck clearance on these two boats? Any issues or spec comparison? How do they ride in rough seas?

Finally, how about preventative emergency equipment & alarms. Are these boats equiped with enough equipment? I understand that they both have liferafts but that should be the absolute last resort... Let's say there is an electrical fire in one of the engine rooms while I am cruising in bad weather. Will I find out when I see the smoke/flames or will an alarm sound before it gets too bad?

Thanks.

You are putting the cart before the horse a bit as the Helia 44 has just been released and thus few have any sailing experience with it yet.

Engine room extinguishers etc, just as watermakers, a/c can be added.

[Cotemar]

Bunt,

On the FP Helia 44 you prepair to tack and just hit the tack button on your autopilot to automatically do the tack with only one person. I do it all the time on my Mahe 36

[Lucky Larry]

Originally Posted by Cotemar

Bunt,

On the FP Helia 44 you prepair to tack and just hit the tack button on your autopilot to automatically do the tack with only one person. I do it all the time on my Mahe 36

That's the way I do it on our 450 as well. I imagine that it is pretty much standard on any boat with autopilot installed within the last few years.

[Gordon]

Here is a possible solution.
https://buy.garmin.com/shop/shop.do?pID=27394

[Bunt]

> On the FP Helia 44 you prepair to tack and just hit the tack button on your autopilot to
> automatically do the tack with only one person. I do it all the time on my Mahe 36

Huh, OK I'm fine with that if it's accepted practice these days. Was having flash backs of leg-over-tiller and knee-holding-wheel from few years back I guess. Thanks all for replies.

Right, that's it, 2015 Helia for me!