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Old 19-10-2012, 23:53   #16
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Re: Lagoon 450 and Helia 44 Comparison

Bunt

If you are going to cruise the med exclusively then my 2c is have a close look at ease of docking on whatever boat you go for.

Having just done 3 months in the western med squeezing my 42 footer into some tight spots in marinas calanques etc, cross winds, hidden rocks in berths etc etc this is an underrated characteristic to look for in whatever you choose in these cruising grounds
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Old 21-10-2012, 01:38   #17
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Re: Lagoon 450 and Helia 44 Comparison

Helia review now up on the 'Multihull Sailboats' thread.
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Old 23-11-2012, 09:54   #18
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Re: Lagoon 450 and Helia 44 Comparison

We are in a similar "boat." We have narrowed our top 3 list to:
Isara 45
Lagoon 450
Helia 44
(In that order) Boom23, If you are just switching from power to sail, I would really encourage the Helia 44. It has a very managable feel to it as you can walk along the coachroof with your hand inside the sail bag the entire lenght of the boom. Also I feel that it's the best helm set up on any cat on the water. The Isara's will be similar. It has the advantage of being high and having the view, yet does not seperate you from the lower level. Great design. On the down side the Helia doesn't have any forward hang out area which is really nice to have. Go to a big boat show where both boats will be. You'll get a better feel for the actual boats there than at a factory tour where you may only see them under construction. Quality seems to be one of your concerns compared to your current boat. With that in mind, certainly check out the Isara. More $, but you'll see why. And less $ down the road replacing items that don't last as long.
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Old 23-11-2012, 12:11   #19
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Re: Lagoon 450 and Helia 44 Comparison

Bryguy67,

Thank you for the info. I sent an email for more info on the Isara 45. I am not sure I want to be one of the first buyers though... There are always problems with initial production.

We will be visiting the Lagoon and FP factory next week. Hopefully, we'll be able to sail some.

So far, I am leaning toward the Lagoon. I've read about too many blister problems and weak structure problems with the FP's. Lagoon produces much more cats and I have not read anything that bad about them. I understand that both are about the same quality and that the Lagoon is much heavier. Frankly, from powerboats I've learned that more weight (not by overloading) and size is good in the open ocean. I want something that is livable, seaworthy and trouble-free (as trouble-free a boat can be...). I am not a racer anymore. I just want comfort.
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Old 23-11-2012, 13:18   #20
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Re: Lagoon 450 and Helia 44 Comparison

Just a had a close look at a 450 Lagoon. Quite surprised to find NPS brass throughulls and NPS brass ball valves ! Yes brass ! and chrome plated brass and notice I avoided calling them seaocks. This might be fine for fresh water but I'd not have them in salt water.
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Old 26-11-2012, 07:29   #21
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Re: Lagoon 450 and Helia 44 Comparison

BoatPoker's comment goes right along with the last sentence in my last post. When looking at a 2009 Lagoon 440 we found that light fixtures, faucets and other items (inside and out) had corrosion and were in need of being replaced. High quality parts from day 1 cost more, but do they really when you don't have to replace them 3 years later?
Boom23: We very much share the same fear of being one of the first boats built of a certain size. We have discussed those fears directly with the owner of Isara, and have decided to look further into the possibility of building. If a large enough discount is given to the first few boats then it may be worth the risk.
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Old 26-11-2012, 08:36   #22
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Re: Lagoon 450 and Helia 44 Comparison

If the only problems are low quality fixtures and seacocks, I can live with it... They are fairly easy and inexpensive to replace during a haul out.

If I am paying for Ford/Chevy quality I am not expecting a Mercedes/Audi.

Any serious potential issues that one should know about???
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Old 26-11-2012, 23:36   #23
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Re: Lagoon 450 and Helia 44 Comparison

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Originally Posted by boatpoker View Post
Just a had a close look at a 450 Lagoon. Quite surprised to find NPS brass throughulls and NPS brass ball valves ! Yes brass ! and chrome plated brass and notice I avoided calling them seaocks. This might be fine for fresh water but I'd not have them in salt water.
Copper Alloy Forms

This is a handy tool for when anyone wishes to check the composition of Thru-hulls etc.

Ours are bronze however the ball valves on sink drains are dodgy..

Cheers Frank
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Old 27-11-2012, 03:25   #24
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Re: Lagoon 450 and Helia 44 Comparison

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Originally Posted by boatpoker View Post
Just a had a close look at a 450 Lagoon. Quite surprised to find NPS brass throughulls and NPS brass ball valves ! Yes brass ! and chrome plated brass and notice I avoided calling them seaocks. This might be fine for fresh water but I'd not have them in salt water.
I wish I knew how to go back and change my original post, it should have read ...

"NPS brass throughulls and NPT brass ball valves"

i.e. A tapered ball valve thread on a straight (domestic plumbing)throughull thread. This will be a source of slight leakage and the very act of screwing on the ball valve destroys the throughull threads. The valve will not be on the throughul by more than about three turns. There is inexpensive and there is cheap.
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Old 27-11-2012, 13:50   #25
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Re: Lagoon 450 and Helia 44 Comparison

I think Isara will put bronze, gold plated, plastic ones if you really wanted them.
The thing with Isara by the looks of it they know what they are doing, by seeing the quality at Annapolis show nothing comes close.
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Old 27-11-2012, 13:57   #26
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Re: Lagoon 450 and Helia 44 Comparison

What price an Isara? Guessing 800k?
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Old 27-11-2012, 14:03   #27
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Re: Lagoon 450 and Helia 44 Comparison

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Originally Posted by boatpoker View Post
I wish I knew how to go back and change my original post, it should have read ...

"NPS brass throughulls and NPT brass ball valves"

i.e. A tapered ball valve thread on a straight (domestic plumbing)throughull thread. This will be a source of slight leakage and the very act of screwing on the ball valve destroys the throughull threads. The valve will not be on the throughul by more than about three turns. There is inexpensive and there is cheap.
Blame spellcheck, i'm sure half the crap i say is the program, or at least i hope so.

I'm going to list the actual valves on a 440, most are no bigger than an inch, i would think there wouldn't be more than a 600 dollars to change over once doing annual slipping anyway.

The larger valves are on the holding tanks and they are plastic, the genet and water maker is after market and are bronze with strainer/gauze complete.

The two on the mains are SS balls with dubious bodies. Saltwater feed to toilets ill check.
And air con. When we slipped i sanded the thru-hulls and they were bronze however their threads would be parallel for sure.
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Old 02-12-2012, 14:49   #28
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Re: Lagoon 450 and Helia 44 Comparison

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2) Lagoons balsa core is not a problem just as FP Helia 44 foam core is not. Both processes have been used on thousands of boats
Helia uses balsa on the hull also... Foam is used on the deck/superstructure.
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Old 02-12-2012, 15:39   #29
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Re: Lagoon 450 and Helia 44 Comparison

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Helia uses balsa on the hull also... Foam is used on the deck/superstructure.
FP uses NO balsa anywhere on their boats. Foam core on hull sides and top deck. Solid fiberglass below the water line
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Old 02-12-2012, 17:02   #30
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Re: Lagoon 450 and Helia 44 Comparison

Interesting, never seen it on their other models. Was on the Helia but did not look in the cabinets to see the hull walls. Its easy to tell the core that was used, but I did not look hard enought I guess.

Here is a picture of the foam core on my FP Mahe 36 hulls.
Note: the lower section is the water level and that is solid fiberglass
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