450: Lagoon 450

[nasailor]

I had a chance to sail on the Lagoon 450 right after the boat show">Annapolis boat show. Definitely agree with the positives about the flybridge. Once you have it, it is difficult for me to go back and look at the leopards and others that only have a small raised control platform.

As for the boom height, the reality is that it is quite unlikely you'll need to get up there on the passage. During our six months in the Bahamas, we only tacked a handful of times, and rarely needs to access the foot of the sail for maintenance. So in that case, it is safer to have the boom remain high.

Scottie2 - they made a few specific changes from the 440 - most important are the stairs going up to the flybridge from the aft cockpit, the ventilation hatch over the aft cockpit, and, I believe, added the forward lounging area adjacent to the mast.

Anyway, we posted a bunch of pictures and our thoughts on our blog. You can find it at North American Sailor | Daily Sailing News, Photos, Reviews and Inspiration

[paulrack]

Saw a test of the 450 online, not sure what the SA/D is but it seemed to battle in lighter winds. In 6 to 8 knots with a screecher they said it battled to sail. Lot of space however with the design. The link is as follows. Boat Review: Lagoon 450 | North American Sailor

[schoonerdog]

I imagine the flybridge was more developed to deal with a problem, rather than just for the sport of it. Catamaran owners over the years have wanted more and more headroom in the main saloon and more bridgedeck clearance. That created a giant cabin top which was impossible to see over. Hence the need to move the helm up. At the same time almost all catamarans were moving towards hard biminis. Add to that the risks of charters where often people with no sailing experience were sitting in clusters of lines in the cockpit and the designers decided to elegantly have one solution end up solving both problems. Move line control up, give the captain better visibility over the larger bridgedeck cabin, create greater underwater clearance, and move winches closer to the helm via a smaller upper cockpit. Sort of a sailing bridge if you would. At the same time, I've been sailing lots of times when the lazy jacks had problems, and I don't see how you'd be able to easily reach a sail that flopped out of the stack pack by heaving it into the stackpack way above the decks in nasty conditions. But I'm sure it's come up, and someone with actual experience could tell us how that's done.

[Steve_C]

I was actually on the 450 in Annapolis when they flew the screacher for the first time later in the day. I was actually surprised at how well it did considering the light and fickle winds we had. pointing at 38 degrees apparent we still easily did slightly better than half wind speed, and pointing off when we flew the screacher we also did about half wind speed or slightly better. Not bad for a boat that size, and with fixed props.

As for the boom, I am 6'5" and I could reach the top of the sail bag. I actually bumped my head on the boom once when I stood up on the top of the cabin. I would prefer it about a foot lower, but that seems possible.

[MehmetCan]

Every reaction against the fly bridge starts with "center of gravity" but here're what I have to ask :

1. Wouldn't there be a roof anyways? How can you create a dramatic difference by just sitting on top of it?
2. If we're talking about the safety point of view; isn't it better to sit higher than the waves and have 360 degrees view?
3. This one is especially important for me, isn't it safer to leave rookies below, where they can't get tangled with the lines or stand up in the way of the boom?
4. Especially a center helm position; isn't it better when navigating in tight spaces and need to see all four corners?

I love the 450, looks great. It might be slow but after all, you can't have price, speed and comfort all at once...

Regards;
M.

[D&D]

Originally Posted by MehmetCan

Every reaction against the fly bridge starts with "center of gravity" but here're what I have to ask :

1. Wouldn't there be a roof anyways? How can you create a dramatic difference by just sitting on top of it?
2. If we're talking about the safety point of view; isn't it better to sit higher than the waves and have 360 degrees view?
3. This one is especially important for me, isn't it safer to leave rookies below, where they can't get tangled with the lines or stand up in the way of the boom?
4. Especially a center helm position; isn't it better when navigating in tight spaces and need to see all four corners?

I love the 450, looks great. It might be slow but after all, you can't have price, speed and comfort all at once...

Regards;
M.

We'd agree with all that M...and add...

It's surprising the additional horizon visibility from the flybridge. We often noted spotting vessels from the flybridge that could not be seen from below.

We would also suggest the "might be slow" should emphasize the 'might be'. We found the L440 sails very well indeed in light airs and certainly held her own with the big breezes as well, with steady 10kn+ speeds and surfing regularly 13-15kn...and a top speed (which we will be happy not to repeat, given the weather and sea state at the time!) of 21kn! She should not (in our view anyway) be classed "slow"...not a racing vessel, for sure, as she struggles too much going into the wind -- Who wants to go into the wind anyway! -- but she's extremely comfortable and seaworthy and (most importantly for us) a good sailor (as in diesels not required!!) in light air.

Watch out for after-sales support though as our experience suggests it's not one of Lagoon's strengths.

[dirkdig]

Here,here

[Hammer]

I need advise from existing L450 owners in regards to the factory dinghy on offer. The Lagoon factory offered tender for the L450 is an Ocean Master 350 with a Honda 20hp motor.

Does anyone have this dinghy? What are your thoughts on it? Will I be better off getting the dinghy myself (ie. better quality for same money and/or same product for less etc)?

I particularly like the center consul of the Ocean Master 350. I was even considering going up the next size, the 390 (3.9 mtrs or 12'10" long as opposed to 3.5mtrs or 11'6"). Will the 390 fit comfortably on the L450 davits without the dinghy rubbing against the transom?

Any advise will be appreciated.

[MehmetCan]

Originally Posted by Hammer

I need advise from existing L450 owners in regards to the factory dinghy on offer. The Lagoon factory offered tender for the L450 is an Ocean Master 350 with a Honda 20hp motor.

Does anyone have this dinghy? What are your thoughts on it? Will I be better off getting the dinghy myself (ie. better quality for same money and/or same product for less etc)?

I particularly like the center consul of the Ocean Master 350. I was even considering going up the next size, the 390 (3.9 mtrs or 12'10" long as opposed to 3.5mtrs or 11'6"). Will the 390 fit comfortably on the L450 davits without the dinghy rubbing against the transom?

Any advise will be appreciated.

Hammer, I'm not sure if the prices for the dinghies are the same for you as we have from the Turkish distributor. However, the list price I see on the options list is more than enough for a very nich hypalon dinghy with a decent engine, so I wouldn't go for it -just like I would for 95% of the overpriced factory options of Lagoon...

[DavefromNZ]

Hi Hammer,

I have the OM350. I have to say I do like it. Large and stable, and will plan with 4 average size adults. False floor always dry. It came without the centre steering console and probably a good thing to make more space. It has a forward locker which is useful for small beach anchor, gear and life jacket storage.

It came with oars but not the rowlocks! So I spent another NZD500 to have them glued on and they work fine.

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It took me a while to get it to sit right in the davits as the stern attachment points locations always mean that to get the dinghy high enough the dyneema rope will rub on the transom supports (see 2nd image)

I am almost certain you cannot go any bigger than this model as there is no spare space at each end and the motor does not have any extra clearance room when lowered.

Cheers
Dave

[Hammer]

Thanks Mehmetcan and Dave.

Dave, that aft photo of your L450 clearly illustrates that I cannot go larger than a 3.5m tender. Thanks.

Mehmetcan, I do like hypalon better than PVC, purely for longevity reasons. So another decision to make. But I do like Honda outboards, so I'll be sticking to the recommended 20hp.

Thanks again for the info and advise.

[DavefromNZ]

Hi Hammer,

Here is the view from another perspective: