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Old 11-10-2007, 05:26   #46
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Badgermnan at it again, it must be some sort of mid-life crisis or he hasn't got any friends, he is getting boring now with his incessant knocking of the 420 - give up!!
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Old 11-10-2007, 17:24   #47
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Badgermnan at it again, it must be some sort of mid-life crisis or he hasn't got any friends, he is getting boring now with his incessant knocking of the 420 - give up!!

Haven't knocked the 420 in awhile now........couldn't resist

The 440 flybridge is awesome......even in nasty weather.....
plus on ours there were controls in the salon......never tried them
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Old 11-10-2007, 22:26   #48
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Twixter, does the 440 have a second set of controls in the salon? Other than an autopilot remote?

Thanks,

Kevin
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Old 12-10-2007, 01:23   #49
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Twixter, does the 440 have a second set of controls in the salon? Other than an autopilot remote?

Thanks,

Kevin
It had a joystick for something.......like I said......never tried it
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Old 12-10-2007, 01:25   #50
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Maybe it was for future conversion to the hybrid space drive........warp 3
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Old 12-10-2007, 04:04   #51
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The joystick is another way to work the autopilot.

Dave
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Old 12-10-2007, 06:46   #52
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You are right every cat is a compromise , it is just the question how much of a compromise do you want it to be one way or another. I like speed , space good sailing upwind perfrmance etc and for that reason a Lagoon would not work for me , sailing into the wind is disaster with the windage of this heavy cat. The sail area compared to the weight of the boat will mean if it is performance oriented or not , Yes a catana , gunboat are expensive and the reason is that saving weight always costs , more carbon , kevlar , epoxy in case of the gunboat all cost more and using prepreg like the gunboat or epoxy resin infusion like the FastCat makes for much more work and cost.
Coming back to sail areas a cat with 10 squire meters of sail to a ton ( 1000 kilo ) is a slow cat while a cat with 20 squire meters of sail is a fast cat
A lagoon carries 110 squire meters of sail and the empty weight is 13 tons or 8.5 squire meter of sail area per ton making it the slowest of cats available
A good invitation for a very very very long cruise

What you gain is a safer faster boat with speed differences of up to 100 %
I think a well equipped 440 costs around 500.000 Euro with the bells and wishles while a catana cost around 700.000 and the 48 ft gunboat 1.600.000 euro
The FastCat 435 costs 600.000 well equipped so it is in between.
If the idea is to just sail from island to island in the carribbean a Lagoon will do just fine . if on the other hand you are a world cruiser than the other cats are a better choice
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Old 13-10-2007, 08:02   #53
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If you think a 440 is slow..........take a ride on a 420........it should be called a "Gumboat".......kinda stuck to the water
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Old 13-10-2007, 09:50   #54
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Twixter, does the 440 have a second set of controls in the salon? Other than an autopilot remote?

Thanks,

Kevin

Kevin,

We do not have the joystick down stairs, but there is the autopilot remote which we use for over night passages and bad weather. We also have throttle controls downstairs, which we never use.

Cathy
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Old 13-10-2007, 10:38   #55
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I don't think Badgerman likes the 420

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If you think a 440 is slow..........take a ride on a 420........it should be called a "Gumboat".......kinda stuck to the water
I assume from all your quotes that you don't like the 420, (sarcasm - we all know Badgermans anti the 420) but 10 out of 10 for persistence and tenacity, I wouldn't buy one if I were you I think you would be very disappointed.
I'd love to know what you would buy if you buy at all and why?
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Old 13-10-2007, 11:05   #56
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I assume from all your quotes that you don't like the 420, (sarcasm - we all know Badgermans anti the 420) but 10 out of 10 for persistence and tenacity, I wouldn't buy one if I were you I think you would be very disappointed.
I'd love to know what you would buy if you buy at all and why?
Good question........I've owned alot of stuff in my life.......planes, horses,
property, small boats......etc. The big problem I see with cats are they are just another piece of equipment to maintain in what is basically a hostile environment to anything mechanical. I was under the impression. that "cruising" around would be a fun and interesting lifestyle. However,
after just three weeks of charter I see the reality of a depreciating hard asset.......with very little liquidity. Boat build quality reminds me alot of motorhomes. When you see the number of boats for sale......the boats that just sit(and what they look like)......and the stack of bills that come with it....... the hassles outweigh the fun.
NOW, if I were buying a boat. I would lean towards the lighter boats.....Dolphin, Africat, Catana, Outremer.
For charter I would rent the Lagoon 440 in a second......just a fun boat
in all the conditions we ran into......I would probably even consider it for
ownership. There are also some interesting customs on yachtworld that I would look at.
Right now I have as much fun throwing a frisbee for my border collie pups at the local park as I did in the charter boats in the BVI.......sometimes the simple pleasures are the best.......go figure
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Old 13-10-2007, 11:50   #57
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Hi Badgerman, At last I sort of agree with you on many of your points, like you I would like a bit of performance like the Outremer but also I would like some comfort and to get both at the right price is not easy. I live about 5 minutes from the yacht club where I keep my dinghy and can be on my boat in 20 minutes although she is moored about 100 yards into the river. So I will put up with the cost, maintenance etc of having a boat because I can go at any time, even when fed up at work (i'm even nearer 15 mins to get on the boat) because I find it the best way to relax and forget, and so will put up with the so called hassles - mind you I wouldn't want to sail around the world, I happy with local cruising.
Same in Uk loads of expensive boats sitting on Marinas never used and just costing their owners loads of cash, this is a waste, if you use them the costs I think are justified.
I think possibly my ideal Cat would be a Lagoon 410 S2, comfortable, seaworthy and from what I have heard sails well especially with a gennaker (no electric engines), hoping to have a sail on one soon.
I also get great pleasure from the simple things like walking the dogs as well.
I will look forward to reading your future commnets.
Cheers Ian
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Old 13-10-2007, 12:50   #58
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I think all lagoons are good cats , they are reliable , strong and comfortable and built for a special purpose , charter use mainly and from island to island so speed is not important, The Fountaine Pajot range and the Privilege cats are a bit faster but still slow. They have one thing in common , they are strong build and that makes them heavy , the only way around that is going into more exotic materials and a different way of building them but that comes at a price. If you want a more performance oriented type of cat shedding weight is the most important item .
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Old 13-10-2007, 13:04   #59
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Fastcat 405

Hi Gideon, Sorry forgot to mention that the new 405 is definitely in my wish list as I think the Fastcats would make a great fast cruiser, but I am looking at the Lagoon 410 as I do not think I could afford the 405, mind you I am looking at my decision in about 12-18months, who knows the finances could change and the 405 could be the one!!
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Old 17-10-2007, 08:08   #60
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Value for money is the key....where ever U have a billion or a few thousand hundred dollars/pounds. LAGOON 440 is just that ,compromises? what a compromise!! Want a fast light boat then lose out in comfort.oh and U pay over the odds for the exotic materials and if cruising who want then to carry all loads ,you will need to have a bigger cat! money! money!..is 2 knots worth it ? get real.
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