440: Lagoon 440 Performance ?

[impi]

Originally Posted by Lagoon4us

There's a choice of windscreen attachment points for the upper helm, one is nicely forward and the other is back a bit and is the standard Lagoon screen position, i've attached one that uses the aft position, we will opt for the fwd i think it looks less stubby.

Need to get clears in roof to see main with as well.

We have had ours up in 45knots and it shuddered but was certainly strong...

Cheers.

Interesting ... we have one but never use it. What wind strength would you say it can handle?

[Lagoon4us]

Originally Posted by impi

Interesting ... we have one but never use it. What wind strength would you say it can handle?

Couldn't see anything wrong with to 40 as long as not a rising wind i guess, it may take itself down around 50+......

Great for miserable squally wet days to sit in the lee of eating Burrito's

[Angels of Rio]

Our boat came with the bimini and I think custom made sections which fully enclose it. I tried it one to see how it all goes together, plenty of protection in the wind and cold if you need it. As we are in the med, we only use the bimini at the moment, we have seen 30 knots with no issues.


If I was in a good blow I think I would feel better with it down for really good visibility and my oilies on. Then again I might be in the saloon at the nav station warm and dry which as you know and I am sure have experienced you can do on the 440

Nige

[impi]

Originally Posted by Lagoon4us

Couldn't see anything wrong with to 40 as long as not a rising wind i guess, it may take itself down around 50+......

Great for miserable squally wet days to sit in the lee of eating Burrito's

Sounds great ... think I will give mine a try then. I have seen them up on other Lagoons but they seemed pretty high and I like to lower my boom when zipping the stackpac. ... mine is on the boat folded down so I guess all I have to do is 'lift the frame'.

[Angels of Rio]

It is pretty straight forward; there should be four webbing straps with hooks on, two for the front and two for the back. You will also need to do a bit of sliding with the frame, there are retaining pins you push in, and slide the frame to the correct position and the pins relocate in to the new holes. (There are only two positions for the pins, folded and erected)

It is easier with two people first time.

[Lagoon4us]

Originally Posted by impi

Sounds great ... think I will give mine a try then. I have seen them up on other Lagoons but they seemed pretty high and I like to lower my boom when zipping the stackpac. ... mine is on the boat folded down so I guess all I have to do is 'lift the frame'.

Ahhh because we have a boom furling main we cannot drop the boom at all because we stay on an angle of 89deg to the mast... Can't believe in this time you haven't used it??? Cheers Frank.

[impi]

Originally Posted by Lagoon4us

Ahhh because we have a boom furling main we cannot drop the boom at all because we stay on an angle of 89deg to the mast... Can't believe in this time you haven't used it??? Cheers Frank.

Frank ... how does your boom furling main work? Is it electric? Where can I get one?

As for not using it ... yeah ... I never really gave it much thought as usually considered it something the wind would play havoc with ... apparently not

[Lagoon4us]

"As for not using it ... yeah ... I never really gave it much thought as usually considered it something the wind would play havoc with ... apparently not " And that's what your Mum told you!!!!

Furler is a 'PRO-FURL- All our winches are electric so Vivien can handle reefing very easily.
1) The main is battened as per normal.
2) The sail is cut slightly differently.
3) There is a foil running up the back of the mast that the mains boltrope slides into.
4) This foil pivots following the mainsails luff curve so entry is very good.
5) The foil has 'feeder' rollers and is also flexible on the lower 600mm where the sail initially feeds on.
6) The boom is supported by a fixed vang at a required 89deg to ensure furling is equal across the furling shaft.
7) The boom is substantial, a heavy gybe must be avoided as it will damage the hugely substantial gooseneck.
8) The boom is like a trough or gutter with a sheet drum at its aft end and a tubular shaft running forward to a bearing at the gooseneck end.
9) A sheet runs from that drum to turning blocks bringing it to the Main halyard winch.
10) Winches are Harken 53's Electric.

As normal all reefing and unfurling is done without pressure on the main same as slab etc.
To raise we head to wind, haul the halyard whilst keeping slight hand pressure on the now wrapping furling line. (This line wraps around the furling drum because the shaft that the main is furled on is now turning).

We stop at any point ie 1 to 100% and lock off the furling line with the jammer pulling luff tension as needed. Now if the sail is up we and we need to reduce we simply do the opposite of previous. There is 2 bands on the sail indicating the third marks so you have position to relate to regarding percentages. BUT the choice is yours as to those percentages.

The beauty of the system is a well versed teenager could handle the reefing alone it is so simple, the main carries its horizontal battens so sail shape is very good.

In a storm once stowed/reefed the main cannot self set.

When in port the head shackle is undone, the head laid into the trough and a cover goes over, this sail cover is so simple and cheap.

Cheers Frank

[Lagoon4us]

Google PROFURL it would be easy for you to get delivery to where you are.

Entertain going for a square head main while you are at it.

Cheers

[impi]

Originally Posted by Lagoon4us

Google PROFURL it would be easy for you to get delivery to where you are.

Entertain going for a square head main while you are at it.

Cheers

This system sounds great Frank ... is the performance the same as a slab given a different cut? .... sorry for all the questions but I like this idea!

[Lagoon4us]

Exact same with full roach, you could get yours recut in the foot area to make it attach to the furler shaft and be the required 89 deg.

The Profurl site is good, there are halyard and boom brakes availible as well, the advantages outweigh the disadvantage of being slightly heavier.

Questions are never a problem, i'll take some pic's once the morning storms are over.

[impi]

Thanks Frank ... sounds like a winner !

[SeaMonkey1]

Originally Posted by Jeannius

Don't worry about the performance. When you are cruising, cruise!! I spend more time thinking about slowing my boat down than I do about trying to go faster and it is hardly a 'performance' boat.

One thing about the Lagoon 440 though... Do you really want to sit all the way up at that helm a howling gale and 20 ft seas? I wouldn't.

The helm position isn't an issue you you plan ahead and watch the forecasts. No reason why you shouldn't be reefed or bare poles before hand and sitting comfortably in the saloon. It has full navigation, engine control and steering.

[D&D]

Originally Posted by SeaMonkey1

The helm position isn't an issue you you plan ahead and watch the forecasts. No reason why you shouldn't be reefed or bare poles before hand and sitting comfortably in the saloon. It has full navigation, engine control and steering.

Seamonkey above responds to Jeannius...

"Don't worry about the performance. When you are cruising, cruise!! I spend more time thinking about slowing my boat down than I do about trying to go faster and it is hardly a 'performance' boat.

One thing about the Lagoon 440 though... Do you really want to sit all the way up at that helm a howling gale and 20 ft seas? I wouldn't."

In our view, they're both right, but only up to a point...

We wholeheartedly agree with "When you are cruising, cruise!!" In fact, that's all we do...



As for the so often raised helm position on the 440, here are some further thoughts and observations, based on quite a few (~18,000) sea miles and plenty of gales and 20ft seas...

• All of the sail controls (sheets and reefing lines etc) are immediately to hand and she really can be fairly easily solo-sailed, or at least solo trimmed in heavy conditions; that's a big plus for the 440 helm. So to Seamonkey's remarks we add...we do NOT have "engine control" in our saloon, but we have never needed it either. We can control the auto pilot from the saloon, but we do our real trimming and controls on the flybridge.
• There is really no material difference (in our experience, which includes a lot of sea miles on other vessels as well) in 'comfort' on the 440 helm in terms of sea motion or even exposure to the elements. There is a bimini and spray dodger and clears if you want them, but we really only use ours for sun protection, i.e. when it's rough we're wearing full wetties and feeling just fine.
• There IS a material difference in visibility. We are often amazed at how much better, for only that added metre or two of height, the visibility is on the bridge as compared to the deck or the saloon.

In our long (~14000) 'delivery' voyage from Sardinia to Sydney, we enjoyed the services of an extremely experienced mariner with hundreds of thousands of sea miles. He started the voyage (as, we admit, we too started our enquiries when vessel searching) with a sceptical view of the 440 helm, perhaps exactly the view expressed by Jeannius. Approaching the conclusion of that voyage, however, he remarked..."I really don't understand why all cats don't use this approach".

We also find it interesting that, so far, we know of NO-one who regularly uses the 440 helm who doesn't love it...altho there are many who criticise from a distance.

Finally we say...each to their own eh?

[impi]

Ok ... on the issue of the RAISED HELM POSITION ... again ....

You already know from earlier comments I enjoy the raised helm position. We have just today dropped anchor having crossed the Caicos banks from South Caicos to North ... the raised helm position really just clenched it for us on this journey as the visibility aspect was superb in spotting out coral heads along the way.