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Old 20-10-2010, 17:13   #1
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Lagoon 440

Hello: New to this site. We have a Lagoon 440 owners version and do have some questions for other Lagoon 440 owners. Any on board here?
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Old 22-10-2010, 15:05   #2
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Always happy to comment on our 440. What would you like to know?

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Old 23-10-2010, 07:17   #3
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Hello Kaptain Ken: Thanks for the reply. We just love the boat and cant wait to get back on board her! We were out sailing in 15-17 tws at 50-60 twa in some good seas on starboard tack. Moving just as the polars predicted and enjoying the sail! One thing I noticed was how slack the leeward shrouds would go every second or third wave and then snap back. The manual says "20 knot apparent cross wind it is normal for the leeward rigging to be slightly slack". I guess my question is how much is "slightly"? By the way how long have you had your 440 and where are you sailing her?
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Old 23-10-2010, 07:33   #4
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We also have a lagoon 440 owner version - Had the same issue and got the guys from Associated Rigging to come down and check everything out - they needed to tighten it up quite a bit. How new is your vessel?
Also...watch out for the 'locking caps' on the shroud tensioners - mine were loose.

Have you guys had any hassels with your Raymarine ST70's ?
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Old 23-10-2010, 08:19   #5
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.....oh....and in terms of the shrouds 'snapping back'......I assume you have fitted shock cords to the shrouds ??? Makes a huge difference to suppressing the shock in the shrouds
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Old 23-10-2010, 08:40   #6
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Thanks for the reply impi: We just bought it from the previous owner in September. It is a 2008 well equipped. Sitting in Greece! The previous owner hit some bad weather the first time moving the boat from the factory. His wife had to be air lifted to a hospital she was so bad off! So that was it! Hauled it out and they barely used it. She wanted it sold! Felt really bad for the guy. 90 hours on the genset so we are happy!
I was thinking the same thing. That the shrouds have found there place and stretched a bit so I will tighten them up. Any thoughts about how tight they should be? In my monohull racing days we always cranked the crap out of them but I think these should be just tight at the dock!
We were sailing her for ten days and our ST70 was working great even the AIS was on line. Not the radar yet but I think it is just me not knowing the system completely. The three repeaters went out twice for no apparent reason! Blinked a few times then went out. Of course right when I was negotiating a very narrow, shallow passage! GPS stayed on though thank god! Both engines were running at the time. I checked the volts and we were fully charged. Auto pilot stayed on also. It may be a loose wire because it was after we had encountered rough seas. I did an auto check sequence with the system and everything checked out but I have not taken the system apart yet to check. It is on my to do list when we get back to her in January.
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Old 23-10-2010, 08:46   #7
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No shock cord yet. I just read that in the manual and will try it for sure. Do you secure them to boat or just each shroud?
Sorry for all the questions but for me its better to ask someone who has "been there done that!"
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Old 23-10-2010, 09:48   #8
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Well done with your aquisition - you are REALLY going to enjoy the boat !!!!
Shock chord - You need to zigzag that between the 'two mast shrouds' on each side of the vessel. You will observe one going to the top of mast and one further down on each side and it is between these two that a good length (say 1-2 m) is zig zagged between the two.
The rigging guys use shroud tension meters, but if I pull hard on mine at the dock, they only give about 3/4 inch at shoulder hieght- so they are tight. My 440 was delivered to Cape Town from France and by the time it arrived the shrouds needed re-tensioning.
The SD70's are apparently too advanced for the Raymarine E120 Chart plotters and operate on a different Language type, so I have Raymarine agents currently re-programming the system (found wind angle was erratic). I hope this gets resolved properly. The Raymarine Chart plotters were flashing on and off: apparently they are Voltage sensative so the battery must be kept adequately charged - Raymarine here are worried about the cable supplying the units being too thin for the distance, so are suggesting replacing to a thicker cable (my agents are busy looking into this).
We are kitting her out for our world cruise and set off for South America first half of next year, so are very excited.
We were in a storm off Cape Point South Africa, and had waves rolling over her. Friends were behind us in another type Cat, a wave went through her and swamped the engines, both lost and it was a very frantic experience as we couldnt assist them due to being in survival mode ourselves. We were VERY impressed with the 440's performance as were the guys on the other vessel. It was a fantastic experience since as we were rounding the point we had the weather from dead ahead, side on and full down wind. Surfing down the waves at 18 Knots SOG was frightening at first because it looked like the bow was going to dive into the wave ahead of us and we hadnt enough experience to drag lines out the back. To our amazement, the bows never buried and infact at a certain point shot up out of the water allowing the vessel to plane freely. After talking to others about our experience, it became evident that the reason for this was the 'gull wing' (V in center between both hulls). The gull wing starts somewhere near the middle between the front and rear of the trampoline, and as the nose began to bury, the gullwing would then 'catch up' and provide the floatation necessary to 'ride the nose up' again. My friends in the other Cat were surprised to have made it out of there - managed to get the engines going again and had some jib out, but their boat was a mess by the time they got into Simons Town harbour.
The 440 is REALLY GOOD in heavy weather
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Old 23-10-2010, 12:47   #9
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Hey thanks for sharing the information and story! I will do that with the shock cord and also check the size of the power supply wire. That makes sense my buddy has or rather had a Oceanis 461, (got wiped out by hurricane Igor in Bermuda) with the same problem. We increased the size of the wire and it solved his problem. Sad the boats gone though! We had a blast getting to Bemuda!

Love to hear how great the 440 really is! That experience you had makes me even more confident that we made the right purchase! We chartered the 440, our first time, in the BVI two years ago and had a tropical storm for three days. The wind was 40 plus and from the north west so we had big seas on the North side with plenty of wind to push us around but the 440 was so stable! Absolutely loved how she handled. Only problem was that we were at our next stopover point to quickly so we ended up just sailing back and forth along the coast just for the love of it!

We were so sold on this model we bought our boat sight unseen over the internet through a German broker! My lawyer wanted to check me into the nut house! But it all turned out great for us so there are still good people in this world, at least in the sailing community! The boat is in better shape than we expected! The previous owner had left all kinds of stuff on board, tools, spare parts, etc. It was like Christmas everytime we opened a hatch!
Sounds like you are planning a hugh adventure! How exciting and wish we were there also but not yet! Although now that we are home we just want to get back on board! Our plan is to move west through the med next spring and then plan to do the ARC 2011
to get us south.
If you don't mind a few more questions:
Do you have folding Props? Water maker? What are your thoughts about SSB or Sat phone for communication or email internet stuff?
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Old 24-10-2010, 06:55   #10
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Originally Posted by smcauley440 View Post
Hey thanks for sharing the information and story! I will do that with the shock cord and also check the size of the power supply wire. That makes sense my buddy has or rather had a Oceanis 461, (got wiped out by hurricane Igor in Bermuda) with the same problem. We increased the size of the wire and it solved his problem. Sad the boats gone though! We had a blast getting to Bemuda!

Love to hear how great the 440 really is! That experience you had makes me even more confident that we made the right purchase! We chartered the 440, our first time, in the BVI two years ago and had a tropical storm for three days. The wind was 40 plus and from the north west so we had big seas on the North side with plenty of wind to push us around but the 440 was so stable! Absolutely loved how she handled. Only problem was that we were at our next stopover point to quickly so we ended up just sailing back and forth along the coast just for the love of it!

We were so sold on this model we bought our boat sight unseen over the internet through a German broker! My lawyer wanted to check me into the nut house! But it all turned out great for us so there are still good people in this world, at least in the sailing community! The boat is in better shape than we expected! The previous owner had left all kinds of stuff on board, tools, spare parts, etc. It was like Christmas everytime we opened a hatch!
Sounds like you are planning a hugh adventure! How exciting and wish we were there also but not yet! Although now that we are home we just want to get back on board! Our plan is to move west through the med next spring and then plan to do the ARC 2011
to get us south.
If you don't mind a few more questions:
Do you have folding Props? Water maker? What are your thoughts about SSB or Sat phone for communication or email internet stuff?
It just goes to show that it is sometimes better to buy a previously owned vessel because there are always extras that from personal experience I have realised add up very quickly.
It sounds like you have already had fantastic sail time on your Lagoon

Yes, we are planning quite a big adventure and having owned a Catana 471 before, we really felt we needed a 'home' for this journey, and that's what we found in the Lagoon 440. We have really been impressed at how close to the wind she sails, especially without dagger boards. I think quite a few Mono hull sailors in Cape Town have been surprised that we got closer to the wind than they could, so it has inspired a lot of debate here.

Folding Props: No we literally have the old cheapies - two blade 17 x 17 with the upgraded Yanmar 55HP and SD 50 sail drives - we get about 9 knts out of them at a push. We want to put on folding props just before leaving here, and thankfully so as my one prop was damaged by welding activity on the vessel next door last week. You can see the discussion I had on the Antifouling prop thread.

Water Maker: I would like to put a 300ltr/hr unit on the Yanmar engines, but already run the Balmars on these and dont want to damage the motor by too many attachments which could damage the crankshaft. We are fitting a cheap unit (R 30000.00 +- $4200) which runs on 220v and produces aprox 150 ltrs/hr of water per hr from Aquamarine in Cape Town. This is NOT the unit we are going to have long term - we are going to get a 12v unit overseas once we have left as they are a lot cheaper than here (import duties etc) and run on about 9 amps. So this 220v system will become our 'back up system. Of course it will always be useful as whenever we run the genset we will invariably also run the water maker.

We have an Onan 7kva genset, two 150amp Balmars on the Yanmars together with the original Hitachi 80amps on each motor. We have ordered 5 solar panels from the states - kyocera's, are NOT going to do the wind chargers, fitting two Victron 220v 120 amp chargers 3000watt inverters, currently have a Gel battery bank 1680 amp hrs. Our Lagoon did not have the LED's so we have converted EVERYTHING to LED. The two 150amp Balmars are seriously FANTASTIC as they are wired through a smart charge regulator / centerfielder system.

We do not want to battle with power or hot water showers - Since my woman is willing to share my dream, I make it my point to see she is comfortable!!!

We do not have the SSB installed yet but DEFINATELY are going to install the ICOM SSB. We have an Iridium Sat phone on board with an external Aerial for better reception - it really works well but remains expensive when downloading on the net. We have been doing a lot of research on 'being online' while at sea due to the fact that I will have some business to keep in touch with whilst Im gone, including a resort on my farm in Stellenbosch - no getting away from it - it is HUGELY expensive. We have been looking into the SAILOR 250 FLEETBROADBAND and Tracphone V7, but I think it's crazy spending that sort of money. I have heard rumours in SA that they are on the brink of releasing a much better priced option now (at normal cell phone rates, but apparently there are heavy negotiations around this and the timing cant be predicted). I think SSB sailmail is the way to go at the moment - On the Iridium all sms texting is free of charge which is really nice for keeping intouch with family and visa versa.
I think between the Iridium, SSB and High powered booster for reaching internet servers when nearer the shoreline is the way we are going to go for now.

We are also doing a lot of research on 'security on board'. We have not reached any conclusions yet and am reading a lot about peoples unfortunate experiences with 'pirates / rascall fishermen' out there. Although we hope to sail in areas that do not require these measures, we would rather be prepared for the worst.

Hopefully we catch up with you guys some day on the big deep blue
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Old 24-10-2010, 17:38   #11
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You are so right on about the used boat market . We are the second owners and the boat had little use so we feel it’s like a new boat only with all the extras already on board. I would pull out and inventory spare parts and my wife would just add it all up and smile! It even came with a dishwasher and washing machine! All I could do was walk around saying “this is totally fn awesome”

Sounds like we have the same options: 55hp SD, standard props, gel batteries and genset. I have not pushed the engines much past 7 knots but it is really good to know there is extra power if needed. I met a captain on board a 70 foot motor sailor who was single handing the thing. Yacht from USA he was from New Zealand ! Lovely yacht and he was a boat builder by trade and seemed that he new the Yanmar engines well. Said I should “givem hell” once in a while to blow the crap out! I haven’t finished my research on that one yet! The 150 amp Balamars sound boss! I don’t know much about them and wonder how much energy we are really going to need. So far the six house batteries and gen set have done all we need. But we are in the same thought process about the solar panels. Our choice over the windvanes so far. Doing the same with the LEDs except for the salon. We really like the pure white light from halogen.

I sent and email to Gori and they recommend a three blade folding version and said a dealer would call but no word on price yet. I should probably be sitting down when that call comes in! I like the idea of sailing faster with less wear and tear on the SD! The manual says to leave them in neutral but no one I have talked with does. Most say they leave them in reverse. What do you do?

I used a Globalstar phone while in Greece. Limited services but in all fairness to them I was always close to mountains and in harbours with steep cliffs. The VHF sucked as far as weather reports in English! I am thinking the same again with the SSB and just bought a WIFI booster antenna from Bitstorm. The Sailor 250 looks good also. Can’t leave everything yet and need to keep the communication going. The biggest thing for me was the weather reports though. On two occasions fellow sailors gave us updated reports on quickly changing weather and we altered our plans accordingly. Fantastic they shared information but man we want to be way more in the know with the weather! Iridium looks good also. I thought of the pay as you use option and when we get the WIFI use skype and the like. Also changed to Gmail! Fantastic!! These boys are everywhere and so fast! I feel like I just came out of the dark ages ad discovered round tires!

The water maker we looked at was the H2 Ocean 220 volt 90 l/hr for around 5000.00 euros plus the 50 or so hours to have it installed. The Nautic & CO America recommended the Aegean 400. “It will take about 50 hours to install the water maker and the cost of the Aegean 400 is $11,398.00. Labor rate is $75.00 per hour.” We can get one from Germany for about 9000.00 EU. I sent an email to a marina in Turkey the NZ captain recommended that specialize in the H2 Ocean but no word yet. So no decision at present. We had no shortage of water with the 900 Liters she holds but I hate carrying all that weight around especially in a big sea.

Comfort is the main focus for me! I am the same as you and have a wife willing to try and want the whole thing to go off without a big problem like the previous owner! So far my wife is loving it. I have heard her say things like “quit work” and “living aboard” . Of course that could have been “honey get to work” and “where is the Ironing board” but I am hopeful that we will be a bit behind you in terms of ultimate adventure!


Your final comments about “security on board” have my full attention! I don’t think that way naturally, always trusting of others, but they are serious issues we face today on the water. I have read lots and even went as far as joining a gun club and learning to handle guns. Not sure about having one on board at all! Even the adapter for the flare pistol that shoots a 38 cal has me wondering. My gun instructor always said: “if you point it, shoot it, or your dead” I would love to know what you are thinking in this regard and any alternative security measures you come up with!!!
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Old 25-10-2010, 00:44   #12
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Your boat sounds awesome!! We don't have dishwasher or washin machine yet. I will answer in more detail later as have meetings to get to, but just a heads up on the LEDs...... You get a warm White led that looks same as halogen. It is cheap as hell to fit. Leave current fittings in and just slide out halogen bulb and sleds in led bulb. They even work on dimmer switch. If you want the others back because you are at shore power - simply replace again - quick and easy and VERY CHEAP. I got mine thru my cousin Kent Grimbeek at JUST CATAMARANS in fort lauderdale Florida - his email is Kent@justcatamarans.net - if you like he will tell you where to get them. Go for WARM White - I promise you won't be dissapointed and you are going to be shocked at how cheap it is. Just do a check first and slide out halogens to make sure they are the two pin type - as are the LEDs.
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Old 25-10-2010, 10:06   #13
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....... Sorry ..... forgot to mention LED bulbs are the G4-6M 12v Warm White type. I think you can get a more potent one which may be G6 or G8 but I am very happy with the lighting we have achieved. Just twist the current fittings loose, slide out the halogen bulb (two pin type) and slip in the new G4-6M Warm whites, replace the cover and YOU GOT IT - beautiful warm colour almost the same as the halogens. I suggest staying away from the cool white - reminds me of a densists surgery.

Regards
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Old 25-10-2010, 10:27   #14
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Said I should “givem hell” once in a while to blow the crap out! I haven’t finished my research on that one yet!
Yes, its true. Its in the manual. But read it carefully its only for a few seconds... I forget, but for mine its like 3,000rpm for 5 seconds 3 times... Or just run them fast for a few mins
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Old 25-10-2010, 16:54   #15
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That is great information on the LED lights impi. I didn't know they were that good and will check into the exact part number so thanks for that. Really cool that they still work on the dimmer. That is one feature we just love! I am sure we have the two pin type bulbs so should be a snap! Did you have any thoughts on the SD and leaving them in N or Rev? If you want to chat more about our boats and keep in contact I can send along my email. New to this whole thing so not sure if that is cool or not! You have some good experience with cats and now the 440!
I checked out the SSB and really am debating if we should get one or not! The sailor 150 or 250 looks like it will give us what we need and when we get over to the Tropics and the USA, Sirrus looks cool with the Raymarine for weather! Also we need the more expensive SSB cause we are in the Eastern Med for the year! With all the equipment it seems to priced about the same as the 150! Am I missing something?
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